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Board » General Discussion » Team Boats / Group Boats

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Posted by
A2


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2009-10-26 00:39:42
2014-02-21 01:28:45 - Re: Team Boats / Group Boats
From my personal experience the origin of this practice should not be ascribed to my Italian friends. There was & continues to be an off site sailing community who organizes team competition across several well known virtual venues. The moniker for this group is Revatua, really nice folks & good sailors, with a primarily french speaking orientation.

The intent was to score multiple boats comprising a team for an aggregate result. One particularly aggressive team exploited the situation & boat slaving began such that the best available member simultaneously controlled many boats. The clustering of positions by this strategy did not go unnoticed when races here at SOL were indirectly involved.

It was then that other nationalities began to follow suit. The Team boat concept here evolved from that situation.
None so blind
Posted by
javakeda


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2014-04-27 14:07:35 - Re: Team Boats / Group Boats -- LazySheets
For the record, the "purpose" of the LazySheets team is to compete in Timed Races and Sprints. On occasion, LazySheets may compete in Weekend races not associated with a series.
Posted by
javakeda


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2014-04-27 15:27:35 - Teams, Alliances, and Caretakers
Several previous posts in prior threads have noted that the current rules regarding 1 person / 1 boat and regarding boat-sitting appear to conflict. They are, IMHO, at least ambiguous.

Here is my attempt to come up with consistent definitions for exceptions to the 1 person / 1 boat rule.

Disclaimer: These definitions may be consistently applied, but I don't see how they are server enforceable. Honorable skippers are still required to make this work.

Team Boats:
** This is one boat controlled by two or more team members.
** Each team member has the potential for complete control of the boat and can make independent decisions.
** It is up to the team members themselves to determine who has the CONN at any given time.
** Team members must be SYC members.
** No team member may compete their own boat in a race in which the team boat competes.

Caretakers -- aka Boat Sitters
** Boat Sitters have complete control of the boat
--- for a specific time period only
--- in order to carry out specific instructions given to them by the skipper of the boat.
** In the absence of specific instructions, boat sitting defaults to being on Disaster Watch. (see below)
** Under no circumstances is a boat sitter to make independent strategic or tactical decisions for the boat.

Disaster Watch Alliances
** In the event of a disaster, alliance members may provide mutual assistance.
** Before disaster assistance can be rendered, a disaster must occur. That is:
--- a boat is on the rocks
--- a boat missed a mark (or the finish line).
--- a boat has reversed course and is sailing back to the start.
** In cases where disaster is merely impending, alliance members are limited to attempting to warn the boat skipper about the danger. They may, however, use any and all communications channels.
** After the disaster, the alliance member may examine DCs to determine the intent of the boat skipper, and set a heading accordingly.
** If the skipper's intent is not clear (e.g., there are no DCs) the alliance member will point the boat at the next mark, or as close to that heading as intervening headlands and adverse winds allow.

There are still some objective calls inherent in the above. And, as noted, these guidelines appear to be impossible to enforce via the server.
I do feel, however, that making distinctions among these three cases would reduce the overall level of ambiguity.

Both javakeda and LazySheets sail by the above guidelines.
Posted by
Svein


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2009-05-04 15:09:20
2014-04-27 18:05:15 - Re: Team Boats / Group Boats
Just like SWE_rossy I Think all team boats should become SYC-members. The above posts represent serious approaches to situations that can only be monitored by skippers' honour.
If there existed a technically viable method to identify individual sailors I would definitely introduce and enforce the rules of "one boat - one skipper" and "one skipper - one boat". However it seems to me that would enchroach on personal integrity.
So for now - let's move on with what we've got.
Posted by
javakeda


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2014-04-28 02:51:03 - Re: Team Boats / Group Boats
Agree, Svein.

Didn't intend my post, earlier today, to be a 'call for change' on the SOL system. The SOL works pretty well 'as is'.

Upon rereading what I wrote, however, I can see how easy it is to see the post as a call for change.

What I intended to do was resolve the paradox of "1 person / 1 boat" and "boat sitting" coexisting in a (supposedly) coherent set of rules -- in other words, to provide the logical framework for keeping things as they are.
Unfortunately, my post had lots of specific details, but lacked a conceptual overview.

So, let me try to articulate the concepts:

1) The current rules for team boats work for me.

2) Boat-sitting can/should be viewed as an extension of the DC system.
-- Skippers enter DCs into the SOL client to get computer execution of their wishes.
-- Skippers provide instructions to boat-sitters to get human execution of their wishes.
The boat-sitter's control of the boat is thus no different from the current DC system's control of the boat.
No instructions = no execution.

3) Disaster rescue alliances seem to be within the scope of the current rules.
But there is a moral hazard here.
Disaster rescue should not be a substitute for a skipper's due-diligence.
Thus, it is important for the disaster to happen before the rescue is made.
A careless skipper must incur some penalty for carelessness.

=====
I offer this as a 'discussion draft'.
I hope, perhaps naively, to get constructive criticism on the points raised.

If all this helps provide a rational basis for SOL 'as is', then good.
If this wants to devolve into 'flame wars -- 2014', then I will stand down.
Posted by
Rod


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2010-06-24 22:30:48
2014-04-28 18:00:53 - Re: Team Boats / Group Boats
Perhaps some additions should be made to the above "Rules".
1. a "team" boat should be announced at the start of any race, telling who is on the team, and also who is skippering at any time.
2. a "boat sitting" should also be announced, telling who is sailing the boat at any time, during the race.
This process should be capable of being "policed" because the server should "know" which computer is sending the instructions to the boat (we have an elaborate system of addresses and passwords to act as our only "security" in the "internet world" which surely can record this information in our SOL world.
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
kroppyer


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2010-02-05 15:25:55
2014-04-28 18:47:26 - Re: Team Boats / Group Boats
(@Rod: ) A team should make internal agreements about who is sailing when. We cannot force them to make a schedule, besides it doesn't solve anything.

There are other websites where sits must be reported (before or directly after the sit). [I mean to say, this is a possibility and can (should?) be discussed, in contrast with forcing teamboats to make a schedule)]

---
We seem to be considering only teamboats of people that each have their own boat on sol. What about two IRL friends who share a boat?

The FAQ (here) says:

Q: Can me and a friend "share" a boat although we do not share the same computer, or even live in the same country?

A: Yes, no problem. Just share your login details and you are all set to share the boat. Only question is - do you trust your friend?


To me, this looks like teamboats are allowed, even for non members.

--- Last Edited by kroppyer at 2014-04-28 18:48:10 ---
Posted by
Rod


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2014-04-28 19:34:20 - Re: Team Boats / Group Boats
Didn't mean a schedule---just say in chat who is taking over---This is to prevent an 'emergency' boatsitting from being a regular alternation of skippers.
And I have always thought that 'one skipper-one boat' meant "one skipper-one boat"
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.

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