Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » Flag Officers » Race proposals » Windward/leward olympic triangle

Posted by
zowee


Users avatar

Posts
17
Registered at
2008-02-09 14:52:27
2010-08-28 16:44:34 - Windward/leward olympic triangle
How about doing a short race using a standard windward/leward course. There are several variations, but a fun one might be a windward triangle followed by windward/leward or "olympic triangle".

The trick here is that the RC would need to be on duty just prior to the race in order to set the marks relative to the wind direction.

It might be fun to try these races in different areas, perhaps using America's Cup boats in AC venues (Newport, Fremantle, San Diego, Auckland, Valencia, San Francisco).

Thoughts?

Zowee
Posted by
RainbowChaser


Users avatar

Posts
2656
Registered at
2009-06-14 09:44:50
2010-08-29 09:52:24 - Re: Windward/leward olympic triangle
I think it would be great fun, personally, but as SOL is designed for longer ocean races, the change in performance of the server with short high-zoom ones can annoy a lot of people! When traversing oceans the "jump" of boats is insignificant but when one is closely zoomed in (as in the unofficial practice racing) it is crucial to accept that boat-jumping is going to be very visible.

I think its great fun to do short races so I would love to take up your suggestion.

zowee - if you look at the list of boat-types in SOL at present (a sticky at the top of this Forum contains the list) maybe you would identify which boat types are missing that would be good and we can get working on sourcing the polars.

Also... we would need waypoint coordinates (in decimal degrees/minutes) for the individual courses.

You have my vote!! :-D
Posted by
zowee


Users avatar

Posts
17
Registered at
2008-02-09 14:52:27
2010-08-29 16:12:31 - Re: Windward/leward olympic triangle
A triangle course could be setup on large enough scale to work well with the SOL engine. The diagram shows the basic layout and angles. You can also introduce land features to make it more challenging and interesting. For example, make the windward leg distance 100 miles and placing an island in the middle of the windward leg.

The only challenge that I see is placing the course relative to true wind. Just as a RL race, you would ideally want to set the windward mark just prior to the race start.
Attachments
Posted by
RainbowChaser


Users avatar

Posts
2656
Registered at
2009-06-14 09:44:50
2010-08-29 16:34:59 - Re: Windward/leward olympic triangle
zowee - placing or moving a mark is doable up to 5 mins before a race starts to that wouldn't be a problem (so long as I am around anyway!!).

If you wanted realism, perhaps we could create ourselves some historic AC courses based on the locations the races were held? That would be easy enough to do... and THEN... maybe 76T or the other polar gurus on SOL could supply us with the polars of two/three competing boats.. so we could race it in the AC defender boat or one of two challengers (if there were more than one)!!

What do you think?

Posted by
zero


Users avatar

Posts
120
Registered at
2010-02-07 16:56:30
2010-08-31 01:42:08 - Re: Windward/leward olympic triangle
I agree with the triangular shape courses. There is no need for a perfect against the wind leg though.

The old AC 12meters had a narrow polar with a very defined optimum VMG angle, either upwind or downwind.

I suspect that with a perfect olympic triangule here on SOL, we would finish the race with several boats tie or within seconds of each other.

The challenge of racing here (on SOL) is to predict where you should be some time in the future to catch the wind shift, and keep on doing this consistent until the finish line. If we take the wind shifts or minimize them by shorthen the race that challenge goes away.

The Olympic races are very short in duration and in perfect or near perfect wind direction. The objective is to test the boat handling skills of the crew and the "right-of-way" racing rules. In those type of races you want to be in clear air and with preference at the marks all the time and do the tacks and gybes with precision.

Here on SOL we test our ability to predict wind shifts AND our ability to be there at the right time.

I do agree with you that triangular shaped courses are always interesting in the sense that opens more opportunities for the boats behind to catch up and the boats ahead to loose.

By triangular shape I mean start and finish in the same general area and 1 or 2 waypoints in between.

Think about how fun it was the round-England-Ireland, The Oshkosh race, the races in Sweden, the Texada islands race in Vancouver. They were ALL very exciting and nail biting till the end.

They all had in a way or another the same general characterists; start and finish near the same location and a few WP to pass.

The fact that those races didn't start exactly with the wind in the nose did not dimished the challenge at all.


Sail on,
Antonio

Posted by
newsartist


Users avatar

Posts
41
Registered at
2009-08-20 03:01:55
2010-09-25 13:04:02 - Re: Windward/leward olympic triangle
The problem with Triangle-Windward-Leeward-Windward, (later 12m AC course,) is that the legs overlap and make the course too hard to see.

Real races physically moved the Windward Mark to adjust while they were in progress.

My greatest coup in journalism, was one AC Defender's Trial when I recognized this. We only had a dozen spectator boats anywhere near us at the Finish. :)
Posted by
zowee


Users avatar

Posts
17
Registered at
2008-02-09 14:52:27
2010-10-13 12:48:25 - Re: Windward/leward olympic triangle
As I mentioned, someone in the RC would need to be available to set the windward (and gybe) marks prior to the start of the race. It would not be practical to manage a course change during the race, however.

To handle the problem of overlapped legs you simply place multiple marks at the same location.

It's not a perfect solution, but would be fun to try some time.

BTW news, I attended several AC 12M races in Newport, and was somewhat of an AC groupie back in the 70's and early 80's when you could walk right up to see the boats at the dock or on lifts.

zowee

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Tall Ships Races 2025 - Le Havre to Dunkirk


Welcome to the first of four virtual Tall Ships Races in European waters which are concurrently being organized in-real-life by Sail Training International . The course for this first race is between the French ports of Le Havre and Dunkirk; circa 125nm in Sailonline’s magnificent 90m Barque.
NOTE: Starts and Finishes in tall ships racing are always offshore to avoid conflict with shipping and shipping lanes; online and real-life may not match exactly.
Race #1923
INFO by brainaid.de
Barque 90m PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: TS - SYC
Race starts: Jul 07th 16:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Red Eye - Key Lime Pie-gatta 2025

Opposite the Bahamas at the tip of the Florida peninsula, we find the Florida Keys, a honky-tonk arpeggio of islands, where another SOL classic, the Key Lime Pie-gatta, so-called after the famous local condensed-milk-based tart speciality, awaits to be navigated once again. We’ll race its “Red Eye” 180nm in very-American Santa Cruz 52s, ignoring such artefacts as bridges, causeways and piers joining the keys one to the other and to the mainland!
Race #1846
INFOby brainaid.de
Santa Cruz 52 PARTICULARS
NAM_AWIP WX Updates:
0245 / 0845 / 1445 / 2045
Ranking: SYC - RED
Race starts: Jul 02nd 12:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Sail Around Turkey 2025


Welcome to the 11th running of one of Sailonline's most iconic races, where our fleet races the length of the Turkish coastline from Hopa (the easternmost harbour on Turkey’s Black Sea coast) to Iskenderun (the easternmost harbour on Turkey’s Mediterranean coast). It’s a 1,372nm race and aboard our classic, 1st decade of the 21st Century, version 2 IMOCA 60, you should be able to get around the course in less than a week. That is if, of course, once you get out of the Black Sea you don’t stop to enjoy the sights or a BBQ or two in the Golden Horn, or on the Marble Islands, now land-locked Troy or Gallipoli or any of the myriad Aegean islands, that you shall have to carefully navigate past.
Race #1930
INFOfrom brainaid.de
IMOCA 60 v2 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC
Race starts: Jun 27th 15:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member FreyjaUSA
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Kipper1258
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rumskib
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member BRENTGRAY
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Patrick70119
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CollegeFund

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client