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Board » Flag Officers » Races » Figaro Race

Posted by
Blue_Magic


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2009-01-25 19:10:30
2010-04-21 20:58:09 - Figaro Race
hi all,

I'm enjoying the race to St. Barths but I wonder if the polars for the Beneteau Figaro might not be a bit conservative. I found a site that has an illustration of the boat with polar diagrams, and it would appear that this set shows them to be speedier off the wind in a bit of a blow. That would make sense given the relatively light displacement.

Here's the link:

http://www.brutsailing.com/theboats.htm

Cheers

Nick
Posted by
Incognito


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2008-12-06 13:43:52
2010-04-21 21:46:19 - Re: Figaro Race
Interesting. But you will notice that these polars are for 5 people on board. This race is doublehanded.

In addition, one thing is to achieve these speeds for a few hours, another to keep that pace for 3 weeks.

Personally, I feel the SOL polar is quite realistic.

Regards,

Incognito
Posted by
Blue_Magic


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2010-04-21 22:18:06 - Re: Figaro Race
Agree with you about sustaining speed - but the extra crew weight would help most with the wind forward of around 120 deg. The polars as they sit are pretty close to my 29 ft displacement hulled C&C.- within about a half knot, which looks like extra waterline length to me brought about by the plumb bow on the Beneteau. However, my boat weighs 7500 lbs and should be considerably slower off the wind. Also, the double handed "hit" would be most apparent in sail handling evolutions- and that should show up in SOL by performance loss and slow regain speed after tacking etc.

--- Last Edited by Nick Thornton at 2010-04-21 22:23:26 ---
Posted by
76Trombones


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2009-08-03 18:04:56
2010-04-27 16:29:45 - Re: Figaro Race
Alternate explanation, that covers many of our SOL boats...

It looks like the our Figaro polar was built from IMS/ORC VPP numbers, which only go to 20 knots on the certificates. Additionally, the data is given in fixed increments from upwind TWA of 52deg to downwind max of 150. Using only these points (see the text polar in the help tab) gives sort of a characteristic "feel" to the polars, including lower speeds in high winds. The 180 point is not supplied.

The certificate data provides extra info in the form of up and downwind VMG angles and speeds, which nicely refine the shape of the curves. The excel tool I've been using includes this extra info and generates SOL-format tables with more detail. The 180deg value can be guessed at pretty accurately by studying the polar, which helps make the diagram "look" nice, even if it isn't a factor in our racing...

Curves for windspeeds above 20kts can be estimated using knowledge of the boat, comparisons to similar types, any extra info that might be floating around and trends in the polar.

The IMS/ORC tables are a great source of polar data for SOL racing. The new boats that we've been adding try to cover the above points!

- 76Trombones
Posted by
captjack1942


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2008-01-18 03:24:03
2010-04-30 18:03:07 - Re: Figaro Race
One thing IMS Certification numbers do not account for is ability of lighter boats with wide sterns to plane or surf. This can add up to 7~8 knots to boat speed.
Just check the position of the real boats vs our fleet.
http://transatag2r.geovoile.com/

From what I've seen of the weather, the real fleet is not sailing in wind in excess of 20 knots. Rather, it seems the trades that the real fleet is in are in the 14~17 knot range.

--- Last Edited by captjack1942 at 2010-04-30 18:06:28 ---
Posted by
Incognito


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2010-05-01 07:18:07 - Re: Figaro Race
I am looking at the real fleet as well. And I have to admit to our polars are clearly too pessimistic.

I do not want to change polars in the middle of a race. But I will ask the race committee (read 76T) to come up with new polars for the Figaro.

Regards,

Francois
Posted by
76Trombones


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2010-05-02 14:56:11 - Re: Figaro Race
It's an interesting problem for sure. We're not really *that* far behind the RL fleet. 250nm or so? 10-15% depending on how you juggle the different waypoint.

The polar needs a refresh, but capt is right about the windspeeds we've encountered. The 20kt cap hasn't really come into play.

I still think that SOL weather gets rounded down...

AND!!! (this just in)

We are using the polar for the Beneteau Figaro...

The Transat is being sailed in.... Beneteau Figaro 2s. Guess how much faster they are? ;)

Good polars for both, I'll clean them up and post them.

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