Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » General Discussion » Wrong Speed VMG

Page: Previous 1 2 3 4

Aaron: Yachts on long ocean races can take some time to tack and get back up to speed. There is often a lot more to do than simply tacking as in harbour racing or small dinghy sailing.

Often boom(s)have preventers rigged to stop accidental gybes;

Running backstays to organise, setup and then later to tie down the leeward running backstays so they don't bang or scratch the mast, cabin top or sides and keep off watch members awake when they are trying to be asleep.

Extra staysails to dowse and rehoist

Inner forestays to setup or remove sometimes.

Cockpit(s) to tidy up, binoculars, cameras, books, iPods to go below, torches to be placed near winches for sail trimming after tacking, sunglasses, suncreams to put lids on and stow safely, biscuits and sweets to tidy up and put away so they will stay dry; Towels and other washing to remove from windward life lines.

Winch handles to find, leeward sheets to run before releasing and tacking and windward sheets to be checked that they are all set to go and not fouled by spinnaker poles, topping lifts, halyards etc and loaded onto winches;

Sails stacked on windward decks or on windward side down below;

Sewing machine to lash down (seen one fly across the saloon 3 times because others had not lashed it down)

Crew to move bunks after been woken up in the middle of their deep sleep and they also need a hot cup of coffee / tea to be made with biscuits etc;

Galley pots and pans, plates cups to wash & stow away; food lockers to shut etc.

Bilges to pump dry so the other side does not get totally wet immediately;

These days water ballast tanks to fill and drain;

Keels to "cant" (swing) to vertical and then to windward after tacking.

All the above needs to be done with half a harbour racing crew as those off watch don't want to get out of their bunks, dress for wet weather gear and harnesses just for a simple tack. Besides it is often cold, wet and dark on deck.

LOL but there really is a lot to do. You could of been on the same tack for several days. I know I must of left several items off my list, but that's a start.

--- Last Edited by Paul Rosser at 2009-02-12 14:16:34 ---
If it breaks, it's not strong enough!
Well, Ive seen boats in both Sydney to Hobart, and shorter Volvo class races have tacking duels, but....

I really wanted to ask about the max performance loss, as Jakob originally posted that it shouldnt go below about 93%. Today I mistakenly didnt set a delayed gybe to be a DC, so it did it immediately, hence I gybed back, and the performance dropped to just over 86%. Would this imply that what you meant Jakob, is that max performance loss per manouvuer is about 7%, so hypothetically if I did 8 or so manouvuers that resulted in max performance loss in succession, I would have around 50% performance?
I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
That's what practice sailing is all about!

Try it.

Then learn to do controlled gybes!!

Then slow up before gybing !!

No more crash gybes!!
If it breaks, it's not strong enough!
Then learn to do controlled gybes!!

Then slow up before gybing !!
=======================
Hmmm and here I thought the cardinal rule for a smooth gybe was to go into it as fast as possible? Yes you want to minimize the angle between them, and yes I have practiced both tacking and gybing using different techniques to hopefully minimize the performance loss, but they basically all work out the same... going from twa140 to -140 is basically the same as doung it in 4 or more smaller manouvuers...

I am still of the opinion, that 7+nm to regain 100% performance after a tack is a bit excessive... I said before that my experiene on large yachts is limited, but Paul, if all those things you mention in your above post happen every time you tack, Id say "thats ridiculous"... And if some of them do... well how does securing winch handles effect performance? And on a well crewed boat, they shouldnt need to be searched for prior to a manouvuer...
Once you have your sails trimmed for the new tack, which should not take 7nm to do, then it doesnt take long for the boat to sail up to speed again??

--- Last Edited by RainbowChaser at 2013-07-26 09:20:20 ---
I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
The key words are "long ocean races".

If you have been on the one board for a week or even two weeks, not everything is put away correctly as in a day sail in rough water / strong breeze.

People are messy, and leave stuff lying around. You only need one "messy" on a yacht and soon the whole place is untidy.

If it is just you and your family, you can be definitive in your requests as a parent and use those well practiced home sayings:
to "put things away" and
"tidy your (room) = bunk space. (Dad's grumpy again, it wasn't me etc will be the chorus you hear.)

The old nautical saying is:
"Every thing in its place and a place for everything".

Introduce strangers (non-immediate family) and you loose all authority and mess just happens. Imagine your nephews and nieces all sharing the lounge with you, all day; sleeping eating & living.

Not everybody will put clothes away in their seabag or on their bunk.

So yes on a long cruise, annoying little banging noises from winch handles banging on cockpit sides whilst in pockets, running backstay blocks etc all get silenced, taped up, tied off, to stop annoying continual banging etc.

So by the time you do this for 10+ days, lots of items get "left" there in case a person need them later or for when they need it again on their next watch, yes that soon.

So yes your inexperience shows for "Long ocean races".

Some boats are not that bad, others worse. Just like those kitchen cupboards for pots & pans, the plastic container cupboard etc. Imagine tacking your kitchen frol leaning 20 ~ 25 degrees to the left, then 20 ~ 25 degrees to the right.

Like ours, there would be a big mess as not everything is perfectly stacked!
If it breaks, it's not strong enough!
. . . well how does securing winch handles effect performance? And on a well crewed boat, they shouldnt need to be searched for prior to a manouvuer...
There may only be one or two winch handles on deck, so you have to get the other 4 handles up on deck and take at least one to the mast. You may well have a headsail, staysail, mizzen staysail that will all require a winch each + boom preventers, travellers, running backstays. so 6 winch handles disappear to a winch quickly.

Racing: a well found crew. Yes but only half may be awake and the other s off watch don't want to be disturbed. so you have only half a crew.

Some will not be sleeping where you think they should. They have made a "compfy hide away cave" in amoungst the sails.

Others are head first down a quarter berth so that their head is in the darker space and could therefore get to sleep more easily and at first glance, you would miss them.

Others will suggest serious disagreement with your heritage and upbringing and will positive suggest you look further afield for help. LOL
If it breaks, it's not strong enough!
Any gybe involves many little things, but getting the boat turned and the sails trimmed on the new side, take precedence over all others. Once the sails are trimmed, the boat accelerates up to 99.9% speed in a short time. The last .1% is made up when the tidying up process is complete.

Any preparation time spent "getting ready", is done while the boat is at full speed, before the turn is started.
My thoughts exactly... I just thought it obvious so didnt bother to actually write it in a post... The manouvuer itself shouldnt take that long... prep maybe, but that, as Hew remarks, is all pre manouvuer...
I still contend boat takes far to long to regain 100% perf, as stated, 7nm+ is a long damn way.
I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
Racing: a well found crew. Yes but only half may be awake and the other s off watch don't want to be disturbed. so you have only half a crew.

Some will not be sleeping where you think they should. They have made a "compfy hide away cave" in amoungst the sails.

Others are head first down a quarter berth so that their head is in the darker space and could therefore get to sleep more easily and at first glance, you would miss them.

Others will suggest serious disagreement with your heritage and upbringing and will positive suggest you look further afield for help. LOL
=======================
Well i) if half crew is asleep then you should still have enough concious crew to man the boat properly...
ii) If they want to win races, and especially if they have signed up for a 12000nm race they should be better behaved and not complain... And i am sure i have seen crew sleeping in hammocks that simple swing with boat heel...
But this is getting way off topic now, so 'I RETIRE'...
see u back at the bar ;-)

--- Last Edited by RainbowChaser at 2013-07-26 09:19:50 ---
I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__

Page: Previous 1 2 3 4

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m


Current Races:

Tall Ships Races 2025 - Dunkirk to Aberdeen


Welcome to the second of four virtual Tall Ships Races in European waters which are concurrently being organized in-real-life Sail Training International . This second race is from Dunkirk in France up the North Sea to Scotland’s Aberdeen; circa 400nm in Sailonline’s magnificent 90m Barque.
NOTE: Starts and Finishes in tall ships racing are always offshore to avoid conflict with shipping and shipping lanes; online and real-life may not match exactly.
Race #1924
INFO by brainaid.de
Barque 90m PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: TS - SYC
Race starts: Jul 13th 16:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Suursaari TIMED Race 2025

The first TIMED race of the northern hemisphere Summer takes us to the Gulf of Finland on a 165nm zig-zagging course beginning and ending in the seacoast village of Haukilahti and circling the island of Suursaari. It’s only appropriate that the boat for this race is Finland’s own Club Swan 50. This is a TIMEDrace so you may RE-REGISTER HEREto try again after finishing a run. You will have 13 days and 11 hours to test your skill and decision making after the race opens.
Race #1928
INFOby brainaid.de
PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
TRQ3 - TRCH - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
26 July at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: Jul 13th 12:00 Registration will open soon
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Lake Ontario 300 Challenge 2025

Lake Ontario Offshore Racing (LOOR) welcomes Sailonline sailors (SOLers for short) to a second virtual version of a race in their annual series, the LO300. As the name implies, the LO300 is a 300nm offshore race across the length and breadth of Lake Ontario, from and back to Port Credit YC. Once again, as is our wont on Lake Ontario, a fleet of Beneteau First 36.7s is being made available to virtual racers. There is an overall prize for the SOLer who best bosses Lake Ontario over the two races hosted by Sailonline, this 300 and the Susan Hood raced back in May; so, let the competition be fierce!
Race #1931
INFOby brainaid.de
First 36.7 PARTICULARS
NAM_AWIP WX Updates:
0245 / 0845 / 1445 / 2045
Ranking: LOOR - SYC
Race starts: Jul 12th 15:10 Registration Open!

▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

SSANZ Triple Series 2025 - Race 1

Join the excitement as Sailonline partners again with New Zealand's Short-handed Sailing Association for the thrilling SSANZ Triple Series, proudly sponsored by Lewmar Marine. Our SOLers will tackle an exhilarating 47-nautical-mile race, navigating the waters of the beautiful Hauraki Gulf out to Motuora Island via The Haystack and back. Racing virtual Young 88 yachts, our virtual fleet will match skills and strategies with the real-life fleet of the vibrant Young 88 Association. Don't miss this intense, tactical challenge!
Race #1932
INFO by brainaid.de
Young 88 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
SSANZ - SYC
Race starts: Jul 11th 21:15 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Tall Ships Races 2025 - Le Havre to Dunkirk


Welcome to the first of four virtual Tall Ships Races in European waters which are concurrently being organized in-real-life by Sail Training International . The course for this first race is between the French ports of Le Havre and Dunkirk; circa 125nm in Sailonline’s magnificent 90m Barque.
NOTE: Starts and Finishes in tall ships racing are always offshore to avoid conflict with shipping and shipping lanes; online and real-life may not match exactly.
Race #1923
INFO by brainaid.de
Barque 90m PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: TS - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Monday,
July 14 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Jul 07th 16:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Young Island to Great Nicobar 2025

The adventure continues as we launch this fifth leg of the RWW series, racing from Young Island to Great Nicobar on the edge of the Bay of Bengal. Get ready for a chilling start as we set sail on the seventh leg of the 2025 Ocean Championship Series! A 5200nm journey of endurance, strategy, and pure sailing excitement. This leg will be pursued aboard the Super Maxi 100v2, pushing sailors to their limits. Do you have what it takes to conquer the Indian Ocean? Join us and put your skills to the ultimate test!
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1929
INFO by brainaid.de
Super Maxi 100 v2 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ3 - RWW - OCCH - SUPSOL - SYC
Race starts: Jul 07th 11:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Sail Around Turkey 2025


Welcome to the 11th running of one of Sailonline's most iconic races, where our fleet races the length of the Turkish coastline from Hopa (the easternmost harbour on Turkey’s Black Sea coast) to Iskenderun (the easternmost harbour on Turkey’s Mediterranean coast). It’s a 1,372nm race and aboard our classic, 1st decade of the 21st Century, version 2 IMOCA 60, you should be able to get around the course in less than a week. That is if, of course, once you get out of the Black Sea you don’t stop to enjoy the sights or a BBQ or two in the Golden Horn, or on the Marble Islands, now land-locked Troy or Gallipoli or any of the myriad Aegean islands, that you shall have to carefully navigate past.
Race #1930
INFOfrom brainaid.de
IMOCA 60 v2 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC
RACE CLOSE: Friday,
July 11 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Jun 27th 15:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member FreyjaUSA
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Kipper1258
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rumskib
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member BRENTGRAY
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member vida
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client