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Board » General Discussion » TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY

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Posted by
WIN


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2009-07-09 23:32:07
2010-12-10 17:15:30 - TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
I feel very very bad about what I have read today in chat and want to share it with those of you who understand the meaning of the word “sportsmanship” and “fair play” .

There has been almost a riot about the fact that four Italian skippers decided to create a team , in order to organize boatsitting and discuss different views on strategy and eventually share decisions .

Our environment (SOL) is one that allows 0,15 miles jumps over islands , and it is very odd to me ( who never jumped a sli ) that team strategy , perfectly valid IRL is so fiercely criticised . Besides , if in any doubt , the “game instructions” as edited by Sailport , clearly state that boatsitting is perfectly legal , whilst running more than one boat per skipper is illegal . We believe that when skipper 1 is boatsitting skipper’s 2 boat , the decisions for that boat are taken by the boatsitter , and not over the phone with the other skipper whilst he works , or sleeps , and we believe that communicating between boats as to jointly evaluating strategies has never been forbidden , and is already vastly used by our French , Spanish and some Swedish friends as well .

We remain therefore at disposal of Sailport and wait for their decision on teamwork in Sol . Should they decide that it is unfair and lacking of sportmanship we surely will not team up again .

Another story , nothing to do with the game and the issue , is the use of certain words that has been readable by the entire Community . I believe that if someone is “disgusted” , or accuses another player of giving out free of charge lessons , or even of lack of sportsmanship , has a giant communication problem of any nature it could be ( including stress or language misunderstanding issue ) . In no Community that I have been or will be there is the possibility to engage in accusations of this level …

For this very reason I will not race here tomorrow nor on Sunday , waiting for some explanations as to the rules by SOLGODS , and , without pretending it , possible clarifications about the use of words “ lack of sportsmanship” in this context .

Finally let me say that we , the Italians , are delighted to have so many friends around SOL , BUT ….if winning a bit too much makes us unreasonably not well accepted , we will take some sol leave if need be , but would surely regret the loss of such good company .

The point is that we, although old and wise , can be accused of anything , but NOT of lack of sportsmanship ……. Should “chat rioting” happen again and again and again …..one day in SOL chat there will be only those who do not think enough before shooting on a worldwide basis …;)

ciao .

WINSTON (on behalf of the Italians )
PS : I am wise and old , thus team Secretary ) ;)
Posted by
Jepsom


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2008-01-28 20:27:15
2010-12-10 18:39:46 - Re: TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
(Maybe this answer comes twice... problems with connections over here...)

Hi Win &co.

I really hope that it wasn´t me who started this yesterday, when I said "4 boats & 1 skipper". I had no intention to make you upset. I just saw it a bit fun when you italians had your boats exactly on the same place and the tracks was quite the same last 12-14h...It looked fun :) But, there is a backside of the coin as well... As long as you guys sail as fast as you do, there will be some complains around..;))) So, brush off the bullshit from chat and compete against us in the weekend and in the future. I am sure that there is a lot of solers as do co-skipping to some friends.

Kind regards

Jepsom :)
Posted by
Incognito


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2008-12-06 13:43:52
2010-12-10 19:04:51 - Re: TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
Hello,

The Sailonline manual is absolutely clear: boat sitting is allowed.

Regards,

Francois
Posted by
Gilles


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2009-07-18 11:05:22
2010-12-10 19:09:32 - Re: TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
Hi Jep,
thanks, even if more than appreciate your answer, I (we) have clarified the situation yesterday directly after your observation.
Personally be sure that I will let you feel my pression in future races ;-) eheh
best regards from the whole team
Posted by
Schakel


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2008-12-19 09:19:00
2010-12-10 20:00:13 - Re: TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
Jepsom need not worry, Winston is addressing me.

"The SYC rankings are designed with fairness in mind." Or so it says on the rankings page in this website. Since all rankings only list individual boats, the rankings are a record of individual performances. So, the obvious conclusion is that Sailonline is designed to be a competition for individuals.

While boatsitting is, as you say, allowed, operating as a team in shifts (I understand you and Ghibli were on the night shift) is stretching the idea of boatsitting to and over the limit of what I consider to be fair competition.

You, and several others in your team, have won a large number of races and have done so deservedly. You have also been very generous in sharing your knowledge. However, you refuse to see that by teaming up you help advance one at the expense of (an)other(s). Because that, to me, lacks good sportmanship.
Help? Sure. But do not make the decisions or the strategies for others.

As for other teams you mention, I am not aware of any other than the French teams who openly invited others. And as far as I know, they sail independently and compare the combined the group results in order to add competition on another level.

As far as my language skills go, there's not much wrong. I said I was disgusted and I meant it: any single nation team may well take Sailonline into a direction I am not particularly fond of.

Cheers,
Philip
Posted by
ita10267


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2008-12-29 10:33:09
2010-12-10 21:51:23 - Re: TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
As I "arrogantly" put myself among the top SOLers (leading SYC ranking with 11 points and no boatsitting still has a great meaning for me) I allow myself a comment/explanation.

Lack of sportmanship is a polite word for cheating. We did not cheat. A lot of friends (sorry if I abuse of this word but I tend to be optimistic about people attitude) are for sure splitting shift and because they don't win they are not seen as a problem. As for sure some "teams" are sharing strategies and boatsitting if other members cannot take care of their boats.

So it seems the problem is not boatstting but boatsitting AND winning. We had 4 pigs (sorry my friends axel, mo_paye, joshua et al. if I cite you as an example) in top 5 in Ron Cazar and that was not addressed as a problem, they more or less sailed the same strategy for 3000nm and we cheered their performance. We have 4 boats in top 4 after 300nm and this causes a lot of chatter and disappointment because, by chance, it was my decision to tack 4 boats 1.5h in advance disrespectful of any software guidance.

Said that, I respect all opinions and I am ready to defend mine and to accept errors that I make but I do not accept to be addressed as "arrogant" or cheater. My pleasure in sailing (both IRL and SOL) is to push my bow in front of as many as possible without breaking the rules, sometimes moving on the edge of them!

As my participation in SOL is and will be very scattered due to lack of time let me finish by saying that I will keep on devoting my SOL time helping "for free" as this is the thing I can do at my very best regardless of the flag.

cheers
andrea a.k.a. ita10267
Posted by
SWE_Robert


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2009-06-28 13:03:13
2010-12-10 22:52:19 - Re: TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
Hi all. I was not present today when the chat was discussing our italians friends and the way they sail together (as I supouse they have said they did), I´m sorry to say. Would have liked to hear, because if so, I would have hit hard on anyone complaing !! Of course you must be able to team up. We are doing races around the clock and around the world and teaming is NOT a Q of sportsmanship. We are all free to team up with anyone and there is no wrong with that. We have had some funny topics here, rounding marks, SLI-jumping...The rules are clear and as long as no one abuses the sules, no one, andI say NO ONE can complain. Some times I feel I´m sailing with children. Excuse me for beeing frank, but there are some ones among you that should, at least try, to hold your speak no and then. Robert
Robert
Posted by
zero


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2010-02-07 16:56:30
2010-12-11 02:14:59 - Re: TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
Winston, I have high admiration for your expertise, as I have for many other sailors here.

I didn’t know and did not notice the joint efforts of “teams” here on SOL until now that I am reading this tread.
I have no problems with team work and joint efforts. I think the best asset of SOL is the quality of its sailors and I would hate to see our very best leave.

I also understand the frustrations of some that for whatever reason put a lot weight in the Ranking. For instance, a team of 4 four boats that follow exactly the same “road map” should not take 4 spots in the ranking.

This is an issue that needs to be addressed.
I would like to see a solution that permits team work and joint efforts but also a solution that reflects the joint efforts in the rankings. Perhaps a ranking of teams.

Now, all that talk of “un-sportsmanship”, that’s pure rubbish. Winston, all of us that sailed against you all these races know that you are an outstanding sailor.
Please, rub all that aside and come back racing.

Antonio
Posted by
76Trombones


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2009-08-03 18:04:56
2010-12-11 03:58:35 - Re: TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
Sigh

I've always had a dream (like to sleep) of running a successful syndicate on SOL (boat to be named Axis Of Weevil) and I think such an effort would be cheered. My impression has aways been that the dissatisfaction is having one strategy score more than one position - every time that this has occurred there has been conflict, sometimes simmering.

ONE Axis Of Weevil would be a force to be reckoned with. No need to multiply by 5...

-----

I applaud the spirit of sharing and learning via SOL. This is something that many of us support, and I know that explanations and "lessons" are freely available to anyone who ask, regardless of team/county affiliation. None of the top sailors here have ever been shy answering questions, and I hope that that continues.
Posted by
CajunQueen


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2008-03-03 10:55:35
2010-12-11 07:33:13 - Re: TEAMWORK AND CHAT BEHAVIOUR IN SOL TODAY
I was one of the first members of SOL who "invented" co-skippering, together with Bgosh, Moongirl and Rico. We competed almost in every race, and it is impossible to be at the helm yourselve all the time. So, for me, there is nothing news under the sun.IRL, you are also acting as a team isn't it, so what's the difference. Keep up the good sailing Itallian friends!
"Sailing is an Art"

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