Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » Technical Support » PROTEST VINEYARD RACE

Page: 1 2 Next

Posted by
NZL_PaulR


Users avatar

Posts
311
Registered at
2008-07-22 12:21:30
2011-09-04 01:55:26 - PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
PROTEST First 4 boats look as though they have passed NORTH of The Cows. Yellow course line shows to pass The Cows to Starboard.

It may be the delay in updating tracks but is disconcerting at least!!

--- Last Edited by NZL_PaulR at 2011-09-04 01:57:20 ---
If it breaks, it's not strong enough!
Posted by
AGage


Users avatar

Posts
411
Registered at
2008-12-27 10:31:57
2011-09-04 04:28:00 - Re: PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
Nothing wrong with their tracks... 1 & 4 even have a few pixels to spare at max zoom...
I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
Posted by
ShamrockPirate


Users avatar

Posts
189
Registered at
2010-12-03 17:49:57
2011-09-04 14:30:34 - Re: PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
Which brings up an interesting question.... Do buoy marks have the same characteristics as landmass? i.e. if you strike them, you go TWA=0? Or can they be "crossed over", like an SLI? I believe that if the servers sees the boat as rounded, it's all good, though it appears The Viking probably painted the Cows a different colour on the way by. ;>))

SP
Posted by
zero


Users avatar

Posts
120
Registered at
2010-02-07 16:56:30
2011-09-04 16:05:11 - Re: PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
I really don't see how can you foul the computer. Computers are great but they are dumb; if they are programed to allow some "event" to happen if and only if "x" is greater than "1", no matter how much you plea, you will not get the "event" if your x is 0.9999999999999.

I don't think you can pass "over" the mark and still be counted as "rounded", that would mean "x"=1, the software is probably writen as "x">1 to be counted as rounded-the-mark.

No, a mark in the water is just a point defined by it's latitude and longitude, meaning you cannot "hit" and be stopped dead in the water at that point.

Disclamer: I am not a programer and have no idea how the Sailonline code looks like.

cheers,
Antonio
Posted by
AGage


Users avatar

Posts
411
Registered at
2008-12-27 10:31:57
2011-09-05 07:52:05 - Re: PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
For x>1 you are correct zero, if you changed that to x>=1 then it is possible to have 0.999999999999999999999 return true for that (2nd) expression, due to the finite precision of machine computation...
HOWEVER - that is an extreme case.

I think it is technically possible to pass over a mark and have it count. Take an imaginary line that extends out from the mark - the direction parallel to that of a line which bisects the rhumblines to and from the mark... Now if you cross this line (which, while infinitely long, is bounded at one end by the mark) in the correct direction, a rounding is recorded. I do not know the exact code used, but in geometry on paper, if you hit the very end of a line (the mark in this case) it is considered that the lines intersect, ergo a fair rounding geometrically...

Consider though, that such small distances are really beyond the graphical fidelity of the client... At maximum zoom 1 pixel is still about 3 feet/1 metre - the scale indicator is 100 pixels long, and I have never seen it show less than 0.05 nm, which is almost exactly 1m per pixel.

Conclusion: Someone actually passing OVER a mark and having it recorded as rounded is an EXTREME EDGE-CASE, and would occur equally rarely (I doubt it has ever happened on SOL yet)... Ergo, it is not something the server should be programmed to deal with IMHO...

Also, as shown above, there is a 0.5m 'margin of error' in the pixels drawn in the client at maximum zoom, so from the client map it is impossible to tell if this actually occurred. Not to mention that the marks are drawn with 2px radius, so while only an infinitesimal point to the server, they appear as a buoy 4m in diameter on the map! (@max zoom)

Consider though, applying this to the finish line: if you hit the very very end of the line, should that count as a finish?
I think yes...
I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
Posted by
zero


Users avatar

Posts
120
Registered at
2010-02-07 16:56:30
2011-09-05 14:03:22 - Re: PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
Thanks Aaron,
This is all very interesting.
My limited knowledge of programing stops at MS-Basic.
Antonio
Posted by
NOR_Jawik


Users avatar

Posts
70
Registered at
2008-08-31 20:55:18
2011-09-07 09:05:29 - Re: PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
@ Aaron

To put this on the knife edge (0.05nm <> 1 meter). What about the width of the boat when it rounds the mark. 125 cat has a width that would indicate that it is not sailing around the marker under these conditions. Most of the boats is wider than 0.05nm, as far as I know. In reality, we sail with knife edges and can give a damn about the width of the boat.
Posted by
AGage


Users avatar

Posts
411
Registered at
2008-12-27 10:31:57
2011-09-08 12:27:24 - Re: PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
I think you have misunderstood.
At max Zoom, 100 pixels = 0.05nm (at least), so:
1 pixel is approx 1m at that scale (the scale indicator is 100px wide) - and different latitudes will have slightly different scales, so often 1 pixel will be > 1m

But again, to the server, your boat is just a point on the globe? It knows nothing of boat size.
So our boats are a moving point, rounding a point (mark).
I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
Posted by
AGage


Users avatar

Posts
411
Registered at
2008-12-27 10:31:57
2011-09-08 12:31:34 - Re: PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
NOR Jawik said @ 2011-09-07 09:05:29:
Most of the boats is wider than 0.05nm, as far as I know.
=====================
0.05nm is about 95m...
So they are much less wide than that

--- Last Edited by Aaron Gage at 2011-09-08 12:32:05 ---
I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
Posted by
Spindrift


Users avatar

Posts
20
Registered at
2008-10-09 08:54:53
2011-09-08 15:24:58 - Re: PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
"So our boats are a moving point, rounding a point (mark). "
taking the geometry example above and other mathematical axioms and postulates you could redefine the reference field so the mark point was moving around the boat point and the boat point was stationary. In which case a protest could not be upheld for hitting or passing over the mark, as it would have hit or passed under you.


--- Last Edited by Spindrift X5 at 2011-09-08 15:26:31 ---

Page: 1 2 Next

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Beketov by Balloon 2026 - In Siberia


Way-back-when France and England, and Spain as well, were squabbling about who should control what of North America, only to lose the most of it to their own insurging colonists, their eastern European neighbour empire, Russia, was quietly assimilating vast, thinly nomadically populated territory of its own – Siberia! Amongst the many explorers and adventurers that served Russia so well in these conquests was the Cossack hetman Pyotr Beketov. Let’s pretend we’re he and eschewing horseback, let’s travel by balloon from Yekaterinberg to Krasnoyarsk – just a short 2000km (1100nm) section of the Trans-Siberian Express’ 9289km!
Race #1972
INFOby brainaid.de
SOL Balloon PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: BOL - SYC
Race starts: Feb 03rd 13:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

West Papua to Oregon 2026

Our next race in our Ocean Championships is the first of a series of great natural migrations we will track in 2026. The leatherback turtle is the most widely distributed marine reptile on planet Earth, and chooses to breed in warm tropical waters, but prefers to forage in more temperate habitats, travelling thousands and thousands of miles effortlessly annually to maintain this way of life. Our race will follow one of the typical trips of this turtle, from breeding grounds in the seas off West Papua to the coast of Oregon. It’s only 5900nm, so to keep up, but in comfort, we’ll follow in our Gunboat 90.
Race #2006
INFO by brainaid.de
GB 90 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ1 - OCCH - MIG - SYC
Race starts: Feb 02nd 11:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Race to Up Helly Aa 2026

A-OI!!! The fiery spirit of Shetland’s legendary Up Helly Aa returns, and Sailonline’s annual race to Lerwick is once again upon us. Covering 383 nautical miles from Aberdeen, SOLers will tackle winter waters steeped in Viking tradition. This year, we race the classic Frers 33, a proven cruiser-racer born from the golden era of offshore racing and still a sturdy performer both on the virtual and real water. Can you master the course and reach Lerwick in time for the flames?

SAILING NOTE: Gruney may be approached from any direction but must be passed for rounding purposes as indicated on the chart.
Race #2005
INFO by brainaid.de
Frers 33 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
SYC
Race starts: Jan 30th 17:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Red Eye - Hobart Convict Run 2026

Back in 2010, one of our SOLers of the first hour, AUS_Scott76, came up with this ‘Convict Run’ out from Hobart, past Cape Raoul and the penal colony of Port Arthur, round Tasman Island, up and back down the east coast of Tasmania, to finish with a tight technical run – so Scott called it – up the picturesque D'entrecasteaux Channel, home to Hobart once again. It’s 250nm, ideal for a bit of ‘Red Eye’ in comfortable Finngulf 43’s, and if the original idea was to pick up some convicts on the way for a bit of R&R and sea air, you may always drop’m back before returning to Hobart!
Race #2002
INFOby brainaid.de
FG 43 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: RED - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Monday,
February 2 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Jan 27th 12:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

New Ice Age 2026 - Longyearbyen to Browerville


Although we have by no means exhausted the possibilities of ice boating on lakes at high latitudes or high altitudes, it was noticeable that as our 2025 Series progressed, there were calls from time to time for longer-distance challenges, and so in response to these calls we will pretend that global warming has reversed and as a result the coastal waters of Antarctica and Russia and Canada have fully (and smoothly!) frozen over offering us the possibility of a 4-race New Ice Age series in our trusted no-PL DN machines. Our first leg takes us 2600nm from Svalbard’s Longyearbyen east to North Alaska’s Browerville. You’ll be a few days on the ice, so dress warmly and take some provisions; go!
Race #1968
INFOby brainaid.de
DN PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: NIA - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Monday,
February 2 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Jan 22nd 07:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rumskib
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Sax747
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member vida
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Kipper1258
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Panpyc

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client