Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » Technical Support » PROTEST VINEYARD RACE

Page: 1 2 Next

Posted by
NZL_PaulR


Users avatar

Posts
311
Registered at
2008-07-22 12:21:30
2011-09-04 01:55:26 - PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
PROTEST First 4 boats look as though they have passed NORTH of The Cows. Yellow course line shows to pass The Cows to Starboard.

It may be the delay in updating tracks but is disconcerting at least!!

--- Last Edited by NZL_PaulR at 2011-09-04 01:57:20 ---
If it breaks, it's not strong enough!
Posted by
AGage


Users avatar

Posts
411
Registered at
2008-12-27 10:31:57
2011-09-04 04:28:00 - Re: PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
Nothing wrong with their tracks... 1 & 4 even have a few pixels to spare at max zoom...
I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
Posted by
ShamrockPirate


Users avatar

Posts
189
Registered at
2010-12-03 17:49:57
2011-09-04 14:30:34 - Re: PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
Which brings up an interesting question.... Do buoy marks have the same characteristics as landmass? i.e. if you strike them, you go TWA=0? Or can they be "crossed over", like an SLI? I believe that if the servers sees the boat as rounded, it's all good, though it appears The Viking probably painted the Cows a different colour on the way by. ;>))

SP
Posted by
zero


Users avatar

Posts
120
Registered at
2010-02-07 16:56:30
2011-09-04 16:05:11 - Re: PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
I really don't see how can you foul the computer. Computers are great but they are dumb; if they are programed to allow some "event" to happen if and only if "x" is greater than "1", no matter how much you plea, you will not get the "event" if your x is 0.9999999999999.

I don't think you can pass "over" the mark and still be counted as "rounded", that would mean "x"=1, the software is probably writen as "x">1 to be counted as rounded-the-mark.

No, a mark in the water is just a point defined by it's latitude and longitude, meaning you cannot "hit" and be stopped dead in the water at that point.

Disclamer: I am not a programer and have no idea how the Sailonline code looks like.

cheers,
Antonio
Posted by
AGage


Users avatar

Posts
411
Registered at
2008-12-27 10:31:57
2011-09-05 07:52:05 - Re: PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
For x>1 you are correct zero, if you changed that to x>=1 then it is possible to have 0.999999999999999999999 return true for that (2nd) expression, due to the finite precision of machine computation...
HOWEVER - that is an extreme case.

I think it is technically possible to pass over a mark and have it count. Take an imaginary line that extends out from the mark - the direction parallel to that of a line which bisects the rhumblines to and from the mark... Now if you cross this line (which, while infinitely long, is bounded at one end by the mark) in the correct direction, a rounding is recorded. I do not know the exact code used, but in geometry on paper, if you hit the very end of a line (the mark in this case) it is considered that the lines intersect, ergo a fair rounding geometrically...

Consider though, that such small distances are really beyond the graphical fidelity of the client... At maximum zoom 1 pixel is still about 3 feet/1 metre - the scale indicator is 100 pixels long, and I have never seen it show less than 0.05 nm, which is almost exactly 1m per pixel.

Conclusion: Someone actually passing OVER a mark and having it recorded as rounded is an EXTREME EDGE-CASE, and would occur equally rarely (I doubt it has ever happened on SOL yet)... Ergo, it is not something the server should be programmed to deal with IMHO...

Also, as shown above, there is a 0.5m 'margin of error' in the pixels drawn in the client at maximum zoom, so from the client map it is impossible to tell if this actually occurred. Not to mention that the marks are drawn with 2px radius, so while only an infinitesimal point to the server, they appear as a buoy 4m in diameter on the map! (@max zoom)

Consider though, applying this to the finish line: if you hit the very very end of the line, should that count as a finish?
I think yes...
I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
Posted by
zero


Users avatar

Posts
120
Registered at
2010-02-07 16:56:30
2011-09-05 14:03:22 - Re: PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
Thanks Aaron,
This is all very interesting.
My limited knowledge of programing stops at MS-Basic.
Antonio
Posted by
NOR_Jawik


Users avatar

Posts
70
Registered at
2008-08-31 20:55:18
2011-09-07 09:05:29 - Re: PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
@ Aaron

To put this on the knife edge (0.05nm <> 1 meter). What about the width of the boat when it rounds the mark. 125 cat has a width that would indicate that it is not sailing around the marker under these conditions. Most of the boats is wider than 0.05nm, as far as I know. In reality, we sail with knife edges and can give a damn about the width of the boat.
Posted by
AGage


Users avatar

Posts
411
Registered at
2008-12-27 10:31:57
2011-09-08 12:27:24 - Re: PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
I think you have misunderstood.
At max Zoom, 100 pixels = 0.05nm (at least), so:
1 pixel is approx 1m at that scale (the scale indicator is 100px wide) - and different latitudes will have slightly different scales, so often 1 pixel will be > 1m

But again, to the server, your boat is just a point on the globe? It knows nothing of boat size.
So our boats are a moving point, rounding a point (mark).
I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
Posted by
AGage


Users avatar

Posts
411
Registered at
2008-12-27 10:31:57
2011-09-08 12:31:34 - Re: PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
NOR Jawik said @ 2011-09-07 09:05:29:
Most of the boats is wider than 0.05nm, as far as I know.
=====================
0.05nm is about 95m...
So they are much less wide than that

--- Last Edited by Aaron Gage at 2011-09-08 12:32:05 ---
I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
Posted by
Spindrift


Users avatar

Posts
20
Registered at
2008-10-09 08:54:53
2011-09-08 15:24:58 - Re: PROTEST VINEYARD RACE
"So our boats are a moving point, rounding a point (mark). "
taking the geometry example above and other mathematical axioms and postulates you could redefine the reference field so the mark point was moving around the boat point and the boat point was stationary. In which case a protest could not be upheld for hitting or passing over the mark, as it would have hit or passed under you.


--- Last Edited by Spindrift X5 at 2011-09-08 15:26:31 ---

Page: 1 2 Next

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Bay to Bay 2025 - Leg 1 - Great Sandy Strait

Prepare for an electrifying start to the 2025 Bay to Bay Yacht Race! In partnership with the Hervey Bay Sailing Club, this first leg will see our SOLers take on a fast-paced, 16-nautical-mile sprint through the stunning waters of the Great Sandy Marine Park, weaving past the breathtaking landscapes of the Great Sandy National Park. Racing in high-powered 18-foot skiffs, the fleet will battle shifting winds, tricky tactics, and fierce competition—all in pursuit of victory! With the thrill of the race and an unforgettable sailing experience ahead, we can’t wait to see you on the start line!
Race #1905
INFO from brainaid.de
18ft Skiff PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: B2B - SYC
Race starts: May 03rd 01:00 Registration will open soon
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Regata dell’Accademia Navale 2025

Welcome to Sailonline’s first partnership with the City of Livorno, in cooperation with the local yacht clubs and the Italian Navy, to offer you the online opportunity to race the Regata dell’Accademia Navale. 630nm in length, starting and finishing in Livorno, the race takes you the length and breadth of the Tyrrhenian Sea via Porto Cervo and Capri. Online, you will be sailing a Class 40, which should keep you well in with the top of the real-life fleet which we will be tracking on screen!
Race #1902
INFO by brainaid.de
Class 40 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC
Race starts: Apr 27th 09:00 Registration Open!

▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Gulf of St Lawrence 2025


The Gulf of St. Lawrence, with one of the largest and deepest estuaries in the world, will be the site of a completely new race in SOL. Our Melges 40 will take us 950 nm from Bathurst in Baie des Chaleurs around the islands of Anticosti, Pelee and Prince Edward admiring beautiful landscapes along the way. Fair winds.
Race #1910
INFO from brainaid.de
Melges 40 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
ARQ2 - ARCH - SUPSOL – SYC
RACE CLOSE: Friday,
May 2 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Apr 21st 17:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Transat à Deux 2025

Above you see a single-handed sailor semi-foiling his Beneteau Figaro III to the horizon. It is in fact Ireland’s Sailor of the Year and the overall winner of last year’s Solitaire du Figaro, Tom Dolan. Somehow, we got our hands on a polar for the Class, and rather than trying to surreptitiously track Tom and his mates in the 2025 edition of the Solitaire, sailing rather-short, single-handed legs across the Celtic Sea and Biscay, we thought we’d see how our virtual craft would fare on the Class’s double-handed 3900nm Trans-Atlantic, from somewhere in Brittanny to somewhere in the Caribbean via somewhere in the Canaries. Allez, mes braves!
Race #1901
INFOby brainaid.de
Figaro III foil PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC
Race starts: Apr 20th 11:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Sinbad by Balloon 2025 - Toamasina to Baia de l'Oiseau


You may recall that when last we visited Madagascar in the company of Sinbad, the Sultan commanded our intrepid inspirator to seek out fabled islands where in Summer the sun barely set. We did and we returned but the Sultan wasn’t happy with Sinbad’s report, so here we go again, now by SOL Balloon instead of sailing vessel. Expect to be in the air for at least 2100nm and depending on how the wind brings us, anything between two weeks and two months before we shall descend at the Sultan’s given coordinates!
Race #1884
INFOby brainaid.de
SOL Balloon PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC - SBB
Race starts: Apr 09th 11:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Valparaiso to San Francisco 2025

Get ready for an exhilarating new challenge as we set sail on the fourth leg of the 2025 Ocean Championship Series! Following in the 19th century footsteps of Isabel Allende's heroine, Eliza Sommers, 'Daughter of Fortune', this all-new route takes us across the vast eastern Pacific, from Valparaíso, Chile, to San Francisco, California - a 3500nm journey of endurance, strategy, and pure sailing adrenaline. This leg will be raced aboard the powerful Rapido 60, pushing sailors to their limits as they navigate the open ocean. Do you have what it takes to conquer the Pacific? Join us and put your skills to the ultimate test!
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1900
INFO by brainaid.de
Rapido 60 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ2 - OCCH - SUPSOL - SYC
Race starts: Apr 07th 11:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Patrick70119
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member FreyjaUSA
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member vida
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rumskib
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Kipper1258
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client