Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » General Discussion » Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??

Page: Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Last

Posted by
Smo


Users avatar

Posts
80
Registered at
2009-05-02 21:49:04
2011-04-02 20:33:36 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
Rod I don't see any point having more boats on me. Just more trouble. But I'll bet some people have. Does not help in Sol ranking. And of course you must be able to sail your boat from any computer anywhere.
Posted by
Rod


Users avatar

Posts
392
Registered at
2010-06-24 22:30:48
2011-04-02 21:19:35 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
My point was that there are specific rules. Unless those rules are changed, we should continue to obey them in both actuality and in the "spirit of the rules". "One boat" seems quite unambiguous to me.
If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by
Exmeromotu


Users avatar

Posts
71
Registered at
2008-12-10 15:22:17
2011-04-03 05:14:32 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
Once again I find myself in the middle of controversy...

Almost a year ago it was the SLI issue, now its the boatsitting issue.

First things first; if NZL_undercover aka UC taking over Exmeromotu's cockpit caused any grief to anyone I sincerely apologize. I play this game not to win, but to hone my tactical and navigational (routing) skills. If my actions have taken away some level of the pleasure of the “SOL Experience” to anybody I am truly sorry. It is not my intention to take anything away from anybody, for that I am deeply sorry. I do hereby request for a RAF score (Retired After Finishing).

Did I ask for UC's help at the end of Leg 6? No. We've established a good friendship thanks to SOL, we comment on tactics, strategy and we've done our fairshare of boatsitting for each other when "LIFE" gets in the way of SOLing. Even when one of us is taking a "flyer" we pretty much know what the other is thinking.

Have I taken a peek at UC's boat and taken action when I suspect something is going wrong? You bet. In this case he was just returning the favor and I'm glad that he did.

Before UC intervened I had skipped two updates, sailing on DC's that (on hindsight) weren't any good. When I finally got home on the wee hours of the night and found that I had split from the fleet I immediately gybed towards the fleet, erased all the remaining DC's and decided to wait 5 minutes for the 0430 UTC update which was just about to come in at any moment. I literally fell asleep at the laptop waiting for the update (Local time is UTC minus 4 hrs.). When I woke up, I found myself pointing towards the line. I looked at the chat and ITA_2011 had noticed that I had gone AWOL (Absent Without Official Leave) and UC had pointed Exmeromotu towards the line.

Implying that ITA_2011 was trying to benefit from the situation is just plain baloney. I have the utmost respect for Piero (Winston_4), Andrea (ita10267), Antonio (ghibli) and Neill (NZL_undercover) and I'd be honored to sail IRL with any of them.

I doubt very much that Rafa or Viking or the majority of SOLers would like to beat somebody just because the competition fell asleep. I'd rather be "pipped at the post" by somebody who got rescued in a time of need than win by "default"...but that's just me.

About the whole situation...Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable?? I'll let you guys decide that issue, but the friends I've made while SOLing and keeping ALL SOLers striving to make this the best online sailing community is what it's really all about.

The bottomline of this whole mess is that in order to be FAIR to ALL SOLers a RAF score is what I truly deserve for Leg 6, and I have no problem with that.

Cheers,

Antonio


--- Last Edited by Exmeromotu at 2011-04-03 05:30:33 ---
Posted by
AGage


Users avatar

Posts
411
Registered at
2008-12-27 10:31:57
2011-04-03 08:07:15 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
This just again emphasizes the rules for boatsitting need a somewhat more explicit definition, because I for one certainly thought the express request & permission of the boat's skipper was required to control their boat.

Personally I didn't find it at all fair this happened and I was nowhere near the rankings involved. As ybwlopud points out, when a friend explicitly asks you to boatsit is one thing - jumping in when you see someone drift off course is very much another. I mistakenly didn't set 2 DCs (but was quite sure I had) which cost me the win in Leg5. Like-wise while leading the Suedsee race, I drifted off to sleep and ran straight into an island. And I could continue to list other boats that have made similar errors.

Anyway, Exmer's comment about 'winning by default' is just ridiculous. It is part of this game to make sure you manage sleep and set DCs etc OR explicitly ask a friend to boat-sit. Does this mean that dunbur won leg5 'by default'? because the only reason he passed me was I messed up. And that is precisely what won him the race - I made a critical error while dunbur did not - ergo he sailed the race better than I did.
Im quite sure we have all finished 1 or more places higher as the result of competitors' error(s), be it navigational or from untimely falling asleep or setting a bad DC (or forgetting to set them). Often the ONLY way to pass a competitor is for them to make an error - and this is the same IRL or Virtual racing. IRL there are things like tuning/sail choice and boathandling to consider, and I have always thought of SOL's equivalent being setting accurate DCs or in general accurate control of your boat for the entire race. This is akin to (IRL) noticing Exmer was downwind without a Spi up, and jumping onto his boat to hoist one for him - it wouldnt be allowed.

If I were rafa or Viking, I would be extrememly annoyed and calling for Exmer to be scratched, but he has done the right thing and requested it himself - thats is exactly what would happen here in an IRL race. How is it fair that one boat puts in the effort to ensure their boat is on track, yet is beaten by someone who they otherwise would have beaten if not for unsolicited assistance??

It cannot be considered cheating, as the parties involved did not directly benefit nor did they expect to, and Exmer certainly cant be held personally accountable, but it is most definitely UNFAIR, and should not be considered acceptable byt the SOL community.

Again, I think the specific boat-sitting rules need clarification and more explicit stating, perhaps even other measures - like some form of official notification (on the forum even) that a boat-sit is going to occur. Heck, IRL regatta you need to post notification to all competitors if u change a crew, even just change some foils or something - why not here??
And should the rule be updated, it should read something to the effect of "Boat-sitting is allowed, within reason and when explicitly requested by the skipper of the boat being in question"....

I am making no personal statements regarding anyone involved here, it wouldnt matter who it was, and those involved do have my utmost respect. But I fail to see any definition of fair that includes this type of thing.

@Kalle: Sorry but saying "Max 1 boat per person, but no limit on number of persons per boat" isnt clear at all. When you boatsit, by definition 1 person has more than 1 boat?? I agree it isnt cheating, but unsolicited assistance should not be acceptable IMHO.

And Exmer's comment above indicates this is not the first instance of this sort of thing.

Sorry I rambled here....
;-)
I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
Posted by
NZL_undercover


Users avatar

Posts
65
Registered at
2009-07-31 03:29:32
2011-04-03 09:55:44 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
Maybe in the future we will do this behind closed doors if that makes people feel happier..........ignorance is bliss.

My helping Exmeromotu was done as an act of friendship to help a fellow Soler that I really enjoy sailing against.

I for one am getting very sick of all of the moaning and negativity that is starting to creep into Sol and it is really beginning to destroy the enjoyment of Sol for me.

Is it because some of us are doing quite well in races or for some other reasons.

Soon we will be moaning that boat..abc. has a better internet connection or a gruntier computer etc etc.

Lets just get on with doing the races and not worry so much about what he or she might be or might not be doing.
Posted by
NOR_Jawik


Users avatar

Posts
70
Registered at
2008-08-31 20:55:18
2011-04-03 10:00:45 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
AGage said @ 2011-04-03 08:07:15:
Sorry I rambled here....
;-)
I support you in everything you have mentioned and could certainly have added something extra to this, but you got it pretty good out in daylight.

Under the Adriatic race, I discovered that Capella was on land and now also Careka. I could have intervened and rescued the two, but let this be since this would not be fair to the others. The opportunity is there, but we do not practice this today. Had we decided to only one boat, this would have been otherwise.

As you mention, to jump on board to your neighbor's boat to hoist the sail is not normal during the voyage. I have the perception that I am sailing well, but I need sleep and then it becomes a little gambling until I wake up. Just the way I wanted to experience this during a singelhanded on the boat. Alone. Then I discover that there is a crew of 4-6 people on board the neighbor. I have no chance to compete at these premises. I'm still alone in my boat.
Posted by
Gilles


Users avatar

Posts
127
Registered at
2009-07-18 11:05:22
2011-04-03 10:29:40 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
really strange the whole discussion....
I made the same call "Exme! you are going back!, in the chat 2 days before (as he was really going in the OPPOSITE direction) and there where no complains/comment at all...

May be because was just at the beginning of the leg??
Next time I will apply what UC suggest and forget the rule of friendship across the world generated by SOLing that had motivated my shout...

--- Last Edited by Gilles at 2011-04-03 10:37:21 ---
Posted by
ybwlopud


Users avatar

Posts
6
Registered at
2008-10-08 18:12:45
2011-04-03 10:43:57 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
Personally I do not think Exmer should be RAF. In this instance Exmer did not do anything wrong. The rules should be made clearer and in the future if this sort of thing goes on behind closed doors then it will be those people who are spoiling SOL.
I am not moaning and complaining by starting this thread, but just trying to clarify the rules so that SOL is fair to everyone.
Falling asleep, mis setting DC's etc is the equivalent to IRL of breaking something on the boat by pushing to hard, its good to see the top boats make mistakes as it shows that they are like the rest of us...HUMAN :-)
Posted by
ybwlopud


Users avatar

Posts
6
Registered at
2008-10-08 18:12:45
2011-04-03 10:48:37 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
Gilles said @ 2011-04-03 10:29:40:
really strange the whole discussion....
I made the same call "Exme! you are going back!, in the chat 2 days before (as he was really going in the OPPOSITE direction) and there where no complains/comment at all...

May be because was just at the beginning of the leg??
Next time I will apply what UC suggest and forget the rule of friendship across the world generated by SOLing that had motivated my shout...

--- Last Edited by Gilles at 2011-04-03 10:37:21 ---
No problems making a shout, thats good, but surely if you are looking at the chat window you can see your boat in trouble??
Posted by
NOR_Jawik


Users avatar

Posts
70
Registered at
2008-08-31 20:55:18
2011-04-03 12:25:43 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
Quote:
"The Barcelona World Race is the only first double-handed (two-crew) race around the world. This is a non-stop race with something outside assistance permitted, although subject two rules and penalties, an approach."

SOL'S IMOC Global Challenge 2011 would be like a copy of The Barcelona World Race, I thought, - double-handed (two-crew) - and then it becomes something strange when an equally well find that some boats exceed that number of crew.

The same experience when I sail single-handed and assistance from several crew turns out to assist other boats.

This makes no sense to me when I try to add up to reality as closely as possible. If SOL says single-handed, double-handed or more crew on board, I take note of this and sail accordingly.

The possibility of a good placement on the list are present at a double-handed boat when I myself am single-handed.

But the same race against a boat with full crew, I can forget, but take note of this before I start. Better to gain 200 points over 600 on the list.

Page: Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Last

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Bluefin Tuna - Mexico Gulf to North Sea 2026

Join us and follow the Bluefin Tuna, as they migrate from their spawning grounds in the Gulf of Mexico to their feeding grounds in the North Sea off the coast of Norway. This 4300 nm race is part of our Ocean Championship and the final race of OCQ2 2026, and also the second leg of our Migration series. We will be sailing in our Gunboat 90. Race #2035
INFO by brainaid.de
Gunboat 90 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ2 - MIG - OCCH - SYC
Race starts: Jun 08th 11:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Thessaloniki to Port Said 2026

Welcome back to the Eastern Mediterranean for the fifth race of our Magical Mediterranean Series. Only marginally less unlikely to be ever raced in real life during SOL’s lifetime than our previous race from Tobruk to Iskenderun, this 710nm race takes us from Greece’s ancient northern port of Thessaloniki through the Aegean island maze, south east into the Levantine Sea to a finish in modern Port Said, in splendid Swan 65s!
Race #1977
INFO by brainaid.de
Swan 65 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: MED - SYC
Race starts: Jun 06th 15:00 Registration Open!

▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

AWKR 2026


The Australian Women's Keelboat Regatta celebrates and promotes women's sailing in Australia. Comprising a week of intense racing on Melbourne’s Port Phillip Bay, the event has grown to become Australia’s premier women’s regatta and one of the largest in the southern hemisphere, and these past several years Sailonline have been delighted to offer all-comers the opportunity to contemporaneously race against Australia's women virtually in a 20nm round the cans race in Port Phillip Bay. Prepare for some excellent Australian competition! We'll be racing J-109.
Race #2025
INFO by brainaid.de
J-109 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
SPQ2-SPCH-SUPBUD-SYC
RACE CLOSE: Monday,
June 8 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Jun 05th 02:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

TuziTekwini TIMED Race 2026

Sailonline is delighted to have been invited again to partner with the King Shaka Yacht Club (KSYC) of South Africa to bring a virtual version of the Tuzi Tekwini Ocean Raceto our online community.
The Tuzi Tekwini Ocean Race is a near 90 nautical mile race down the east coast of South Africa from the port of Richards Bay to the port of Durban. Achievable in a single day and seen by some as an easy mile-builder, the course is more tactical than some think and should not be underestimated. This iconic race promises to be an unforgettable experience for yachting enthusiasts.
Our online version of the race will be a TIMEDrace so you may RE-REGISTER HEREto try again after finishing a run. You will have two weeks to test your skill and decision making after the race opens.
Race #2037
INFOby brainaid.de
Sailonline’s virtual yacht for all your runs will be our much-loved Farr 38 PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
TRQ2 - TRCH - SUPBUD - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
13 June at 23:00 UTC
Race starts: May 31st 12:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Susan Hood Trophy Race 2026

Lake Ontario Offshore Racing (LOOR) welcomes racers to Sailonline’s virtual version of their annual Susan Hood Trophy Race. This year, this pleasant weekender on western Lake Ontario will be of about 60nm in length, and online for convenience will start and finish at the Port Credit Yacht Club (PCYC). At or before the real-life Skipper’s Briefing a decision will be made to race the course clockwise (course Delta) or anti-clockwise (Echo). If there is time we will match this online. As before, the race is the first of two that will count towards a special Sailonline's LOOR Series medals, but this year we sail in Jeanneau Sun Fast 3300s. Bon voyage!
Race #2033
INFOby brainaid.de
Sun Fast 3300 PARTICULARS
NAM_AWIP WX Updates:
0245 / 0845 / 1445 / 2045
Ranking: LOOR - SUPBUD - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Friday,
June 5 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: May 29th 23:45 Registration Open!

▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Cross the Convergence 2026 - St Helena to Cape Verde


The fourth race of our series of ocean voyages across the World’s convergence zones takes us out of the Pacific into the Atlantic for a 2200nm race in Judel Vrolijk 62’s, from the desolation of St Helena, there where Napolean Bonaparte saw out the end of his life, to the even greater desolation of Fogo in the Cape Verde’s. You’ll have to cross the equator, with the coasts of Africa and South America your only navigational restrictions.
Race #1984
INFOby brainaid.de
Judel Vrolijk 62PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: CCZ - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Saturday,
June 6 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: May 22nd 18:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Panpyc
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member HoratioPugwash
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rumskib
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CollegeFund
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member sassy63

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client