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Board » General Discussion » Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??

Posted by KiaKaha Posts 19 Registered at 2010-12-14 20:47:23	2011-04-03 12:28:06 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Boatsitting is allowed!! Do you think that boatsitting is allowed for an entire race, which seems to be the case in the "There and back Again race" with Sassy and Robert. Their tracks are identical for the entire race which must surely mean that they are being sailed by the same person!!! Is this boatsitting or one person two boats???
Posted by NOR_Jawik Posts 70 Registered at 2008-08-31 20:55:18	2011-04-03 14:14:17 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Interesting observation you have done here. I ask myself what the motive is for doing this and of course the answer is - ranking. They want their way up with a good location to be reflected in the applause from the rest of us. And while this is legal, we must accept it. But where is the joy of getting a good ranking. This is boat sitting with two person and two boats. Unless one is away at all times during the race Even now, I manage to get in at #50 after having been away from the control over two nights because of sleep and I feel good with myself.
Posted by Rod Posts 392 Registered at 2010-06-24 22:30:48	2011-04-03 15:05:34 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	I personally feel very badly about my part in both this argument about "One Boat per Sailor" and about "Return and Pass the Mark Correctly" in practice racing. I do not win. I've had only one podium in practice racing. But I always try to do my very best. Sometimes I miss a turn Mark, sometimes I even sleep and perform at less than optimum overnight. I always try to obey the rules both in SOL and in radio-control racing. I accept the fact that I do not win. But I will never participate IF I CAN NEVER WIN. As far as I am concerned, (and I am sure I am not alone in this thought), the rules of any sport or game are there to insure that everyone has an EQUAL CHANCE. I have no wish to be a "nit-picker" or a "sea-lawyer". If I point out that someone has missed a Mark, or has broken a rule, I would expect, actually, to be thanked (with natural regret), by a person who does not wish to break the rules by accident either. A boat which missed a mark has not completed the course. A boat sailed by two different persons, (even for a few seconds), has broken the rule about 'One person per boat' even if they are 'good friends'. --- Last Edited by Rod at 2011-04-03 16:13:15 --- If it breaks, it's not strong enough--if it doesn't, it's too heavy.
Posted by ita10267 Posts 88 Registered at 2008-12-29 10:33:09	2011-04-03 16:40:05 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Beside all the philosohpical discussions, boatsitting is explicitly and implicitly allowed. Since the early days of SOL. You can do it on a friendship base. You can do on a matter of opportunity. Or you cannot do it. It's a matter of personal choice and it is not something which should always taken as the starting point for a flame. We try to sail SOL as we sail IRL. If I notice a friend's boat going on the obviously wrong side of a course I yell at them just as I did in the chat. If I see a boat which is sailing into danger I try, if I can, to get control of it, as I did when I noticed ohm going ashore. It is explicitly allowed by the rule and I will keep on doing it with the boats of my friends who honour me with their trust. Should the SOL owners decide to change the rule and forbid boatsitting I will obey to the new rule as I do to all the rules enforced.
Posted by Capt.D.P. Posts 66 Registered at 2009-10-27 01:51:32	2011-04-03 23:02:32 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	I am a sailor in real life,actually retired sailor and it is in my blood to help fellow sailors even in virtual life, as it is this SOL game(rather competition). So many times I have seen boats grounded,going opposite course or completely wrong direction,the boats unattended.I would wish than to have passwords of those boats to help them out. I THEREFOR SEE NOTHING WRONG IN HELPING FELLOW SOL RACER AND EVEN MORE SO IF HE/SHE IS FRIEND OF YOURS africa --- Last Edited by Capt.D.P. at 2011-04-03 23:05:10 --- --- Last Edited by Capt.D.P. at 2011-04-03 23:06:18 --- --- Last Edited by Capt.D.P. at 2011-04-03 23:07:23 ---
Posted by AWoL Posts 22 Registered at 2009-07-01 15:15:13	2011-04-03 23:57:02 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	Agree with you Africa. In real life we would do what you advocate. Who wouldn't? And if such exist as wouldn't, God rest their souls. However this is a game,a race, part of which is the ability to keep the boat on track, whilst having to have recourse to sleep, a most foul, vile limitation imposed on mankind consequent to his having evolved from the ape, who exhibits a marked propensity for passing the time in slumber. So in this case, self interest should prevail over altruism. Indeed altruism should be derided, despised even, as being contrary to "the spirit of the rules" mentioned by Rod. All are conversant with such rules, which the majority have observed, until recently. It is to be hoped that those who maintain the spirit prevail over those who seek to "bend" the rules.Hope is one thing, reality another. I wait and watch with interest. ps it is in the nature of things that the elite will get to know each other, but when they aid each other in maintaining that status, it cannot but cause dismay to the outsider whose erstwhile respect for that elite may turn to something else. (otherwise known as AWoL) --- Last Edited by Andrew Lees at 2011-04-03 23:59:46 ---
Posted by zero Posts 120 Registered at 2010-02-07 16:56:30	2011-04-04 00:18:29 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	For what I understand boat sitting is part of SOL since the early days. For the record, "Calamity" is my boat guard-angel and she has saved "zero" from beaching countless times. If the SOL's rules-of-engagement change to forbidden this practice rest assure that I will change my password and sail alone thereafter. I would like to say that one of things that make SOL great is the community of sailors. I would suggest to anyone who have seen their boats hit the beach way too often to find a SOL friend as your boat guard-angel. There are many great people here. Antonio (zero)
Posted by WhyNot Posts 51 Registered at 2011-02-03 18:39:54	2011-04-04 09:24:56 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	IRL. if I see a competitor (even if he or she is a good friend) make a "wrong move" I just grin and take advantage of it. Same thing here in SOL. In a recent practice race, I was #3 aproaching the finish line. We all had one last tack to do, and I noticed that #2 didn't tack (maybe he was chatting or in the bathroom). My mind went "YESS!" and I finished #2 instead. But then - I guess I'm not really a nice person.
Posted by AGage Posts 411 Registered at 2008-12-27 10:31:57	2011-04-04 10:33:50 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	OK, let us define 'boat-sitting' then, as to me it was "Hey mate, I am at work (wherever - away from PC), can you tack me" or "Can you get me off the beach?", or "Ill be away for weekend, can you keep me on track please?"... not - hey i see a friend off course, Ill just go in and change it for him. So, ITA If I see someone sailing an obviously non-opitumum course, it is entirely acceptable for me to login under their credentials, and alter their course? What if I also notice they have only set CC DCs, but a TWA would gain them another few NM, can I change all their DCs to? Seriously, define boatsitting please someone? I would really like to hear what the writes of the rule originally had in mind regarding its use? @Gilles: It is not that it was shouted out in chat that Exmer was looking off course, it was that another SOLer went in a changed it for him. And yeah i have often thought it an odd thing to do - surely if one can read the chat, they can see they are off course/about to run aground --- Last Edited by Aaron Gage at 2011-04-04 10:36:24 --- I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__
Posted by AGage Posts 411 Registered at 2008-12-27 10:31:57	2011-04-04 10:57:19 - Re: Is it cheating, unfair or acceptable??
	NZL_undercover said: Maybe in the future we will do this behind closed doors if that makes people feel happier..........ignorance is bliss. Not when that ignorance is due to the clandestine activities of others... And it seems this has already been happening behind closed doors... NZL_undercover said: My helping Exmeromotu was done as an act of friendship to help a fellow Soler that I really enjoy sailing against. Then sail against him, not for him.... And no one is questioning WHY, rather pointing out this is unfair to other skippers... NZL_undercover said: I for one am getting very sick of all of the moaning and negativity that is starting to creep into Sol and it is really beginning to destroy the enjoyment of Sol for me. Is it because some of us are doing quite well in races or for some other reasons. Perhaps because 'behind the scenes' activities such as this are starting to creep OUT, although I am sure there are other issues people have... NZL_undercover said: Lets just get on with doing the races and not worry so much about what he or she might be or might not be doing. What he or she might be doing is not at issue, it is what he AND she are doing together... Absolutely nothing personal here UC, just that you said this, and are involved this time. It is the principle I refer to, would prefer not to mention names at all... --- Last Edited by Aaron Gage at 2011-04-04 11:20:43 --- I help develop the client interface for the best online ocean racing sim there is... __/)/)_/)__

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