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Board » General Discussion » Mark rounding

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Posted by
KiaKaha


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2010-12-14 20:47:23
2011-07-16 12:33:34 - Mark rounding
Yes it has reared its ugly head again.
Can someone please give us a clarification of Petrm's rounding of Muckle Flugga mark. The rules clearly say that you must follow the arrow, which must mean no doubling back .. right or wrong!!! the diagram in the rule book says it is illegal

--- Last Edited by KiaKaha at 2011-07-16 13:07:33 ---

--- Last Edited by KiaKaha at 2011-07-16 14:08:44 ---
Posted by
WIN


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2009-07-09 23:32:07
2011-07-16 13:06:42 - Re: Mark rounding
I agree with you . The new rules for rounding that have been created and enforced since about one year ago should have returned to Petr a " not rounded " as soon as he crossed back the line extending from the waypoint , and his distance from finish should have started to increase rather than decrease.

It is the second time in recent weeks that the rounding rule re-inforcement by the server fails to trigger , and I wonder if something that was in place before slipped through the recent upgrades to the game ..... it will be very easy for our SOL engineers to rectify though ....and this is why I commented to your point : to double up your effort to attract attention to this fault.

Ciao

WIN ;)
Posted by
76Trombones


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2009-08-03 18:04:56
2011-07-16 15:43:44 - Re: Mark rounding
The new rules for rounding that have been created and enforced since about one year ago should have returned to Petr a " not rounded " as soon as he crossed back the line extending from the waypoint , and his distance from finish should have started to increase rather than decrease.

Yes - it's apparent that we've lost the chunk of coded that fixed this issue. In-and-out has been permitted in a few races now. It still not possible to round the wrong way (have been some spectacular examples recently!), so it's a bit confused at present.

I hope everyone understands that the gears at SOL started turning the moment it became obvious that the glitch still exists. The inner works are being cracked open as we type.

As far as any protests etc go, I'm happy to sit as volunteer committee and hear arguments, but from my reading of the rules the rounding is unassailable.

PDF Manual_rev5_1

"Rule" 4.2 The Course, Rounding Buoys and the Finish



The relevant diagram shows three roundings, only one of which is labeled "illegal". The rounding in question clearly followed the green path and then backtracked, on which the text has nothing to say.

The text then goes on to say: You can be sure you have correctly passed a waypoint as it will show “rounded” on the race screen.

The rounding was explicitly correct as the conditions specified were met.

HTML Manual

"Rule" 1.5 Marks must be rounded in the direction indicated by the arrows in the client. This rule is enforced automatically by the server.

This condition was met. The mark was "rounded" in the correct direction, but subsequently unrounded. The rule was enforced automatically.

Protests, DSQ, redress etc must follow the rules as written and implemented, in SOL as in IRL.

None of this is saying that the rounding would have been allowed IRL, or that this isn't #1 priority to correct. The change to the rounding rules that originally eliminated this problem was almost universally applauded. It made things much more clear, reflected IRL practice and made the job of setting courses much easier. As soon as SOL can track down the correct chunk of code and it's safe/appropriate to do so (not mid-race) the fix will be applied.

The rules as correctly implemented worked as IRL, and as follows:



Our finish line still does not conform to IRL, in that it can be crossed from either side.

--------------

A side project that should come out of this: the manual is not a rule book. SOL should have accurate and unambiguous rules defined in a separate document. We don't have very many rules, but writing this type of thing is surprisingly hard to do correctly. I invite any interested parties to contribute to this effort.

76T
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Posted by
Sebensa


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2010-10-06 14:50:36
2011-07-16 16:54:34 - Re: Mark rounding
if acceptable,as a past National exec. of a class in RSA, as well as an active competive sailor for a number of years, I am happy (in semi retirement) to offer my bit. Lattitude/time diff. may make this difficult - even with Skype etc.
However, the growth & sustainability of SOL deserves a bit of effort from me & all who enjoy this facility, imho
call me anytime

Kind regards
Ray
Posted by
PetrM


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2008-12-31 13:00:19
2011-07-16 19:24:44 - Re: Mark rounding
As I said earlier in the chat:

"I am apologize for die hard sailors, but my move was within rules of SOL."

"From manual and game behavior:
I have a understanding, that rounding rule is when accessing mark. So when mark is marked as rounded, you can deal with next mark."

Hope my move, which was forced by defending position within SOL rules, will help to advance SOL rule closer IRL rules. So people who never sailed race, as me, can be educated about IRL sailing racing rules.

Thanks to All who tried to understand SOL rules and published their opinion that my move was legal.

Thanks to bushing All others.

Have a great time IRL.
PetrM
Posted by
KiaKaha


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2010-12-14 20:47:23
2011-07-16 20:13:51 - Re: Mark rounding
76T,
I dont know how you can say that the Petrm followed the green line in the diagram.If the green line was followed he would have come to the mark on stb and left it on stb therefore following the arrow. The pink line which says is illegal is the one he followed which comes to the mark and turns and goes back the way he came. If you cant see this you must be looking at a different picture.You also say that the manual is not a rule book, which maybe its not, but it does say the word " illegal" in there so it must not be able to be done!! Also as Kalle said, at a mark rounding you must follow the direction of the arrow, again this was not done.
Posted by
sol


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2008-08-14 11:08:14
2011-07-16 21:11:24 - Re: Mark rounding
please accept this as POSITIVE contribution , specially for good Petr who has to understand why we are at this stage .

76T please , allow me to explain without reference to all those different examples , that are perfect , but may be too much for the non experienced in IRL sailing .

Petr ....this is the full story :

up to about one year ago what you did was quite commonly done by many in SOL , although non corresponding to IRL regulations , but just permitted by the server , as once that line from the mark was passed , from there one could do what he liked , and the server would continue to consider that boat as "rounded ".

One night , when a boat called Incognito did it again , there was a riot , and the solgods intervened , enforcing that a mark MUST be passed ( or "left" as the correct terminology is ) keeping the boat at the same side of the mark all the way through the rounding .....In simpler terms the mark must be contained INSIDE the whole track of the boats race .

Solport found a coding way of enforcing this , and the manual was amended . From that moment if a boat was doing what you have done , the passing back of that line from the mark was triggering the mark to become "not rounded " , so to enforce the practice.

Very recently something happened with the sol programme itself , whereby the coding part we are talking about have been lost ...I am sure that it will be found and reinstated as soon as possible .

In the meantime anything that is allowed by the server is NOT illegal ......but trust me .....passing the mark and coming back is NOT passing a mark ...it is bouncing against a wall ...and that is NOT sail racing ( only videogame ).

hope clear for those who were not with us one year ago , and hope the correct system will be reinstated asap.
;)
ciao
Posted by
WIN


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2009-07-09 23:32:07
2011-07-16 21:13:29 - Re: Mark rounding
my fondest apologies ....

did not realize that I was logged in as sol

the previous post is mine ...WIN....;)

PS : posting as sol ....was it not precluded ????????

ciao
Posted by
Schakel


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2008-12-19 09:19:00
2011-07-16 21:38:29 - Re: Mark rounding
sol said @ 2011-07-16 21:11:24:
please accept this as POSITIVE contribution , specially for good Petr who has to understand why we are at this stage .

Petr ....this is the full story :
WIN,

You can be sure that Petr is very much aware of everything you wrote about. He has been active here since January 2009 and has participated in well over 130 races. And you can also be sure he knew exactly what he was doing.

Cheers,
Philip



Posted by
WIN


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2009-07-09 23:32:07
2011-07-16 22:04:41 - Re: Mark rounding
Philip

you are perfectly right ....Petr is with us since end of 2008 actually ...the information is on this very page .......

Perhaps my contribution was for those who were'nt and may not understand this subject.

I still believe that sol should go back to previous situation whereby correct rounding was reinforced by server , to go back to sail racing simulation.

Ciao

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