Facebook

Login

Support Sailonline

If you haven't already - join the SAILONLINE YACHT CLUB!

Please also consider making a donation - all amounts are greatly appreciated!

Board » General Discussion » Mark rounding

Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next

Posted by
KiaKaha


Users avatar

Posts
19
Registered at
2010-12-14 20:47:23
2011-07-16 12:33:34 - Mark rounding
Yes it has reared its ugly head again.
Can someone please give us a clarification of Petrm's rounding of Muckle Flugga mark. The rules clearly say that you must follow the arrow, which must mean no doubling back .. right or wrong!!! the diagram in the rule book says it is illegal

--- Last Edited by KiaKaha at 2011-07-16 13:07:33 ---

--- Last Edited by KiaKaha at 2011-07-16 14:08:44 ---
Posted by
WIN


Users avatar

Posts
349
Registered at
2009-07-09 23:32:07
2011-07-16 13:06:42 - Re: Mark rounding
I agree with you . The new rules for rounding that have been created and enforced since about one year ago should have returned to Petr a " not rounded " as soon as he crossed back the line extending from the waypoint , and his distance from finish should have started to increase rather than decrease.

It is the second time in recent weeks that the rounding rule re-inforcement by the server fails to trigger , and I wonder if something that was in place before slipped through the recent upgrades to the game ..... it will be very easy for our SOL engineers to rectify though ....and this is why I commented to your point : to double up your effort to attract attention to this fault.

Ciao

WIN ;)
Posted by
76Trombones


Users avatar

Posts
362
Registered at
2009-08-03 18:04:56
2011-07-16 15:43:44 - Re: Mark rounding
The new rules for rounding that have been created and enforced since about one year ago should have returned to Petr a " not rounded " as soon as he crossed back the line extending from the waypoint , and his distance from finish should have started to increase rather than decrease.

Yes - it's apparent that we've lost the chunk of coded that fixed this issue. In-and-out has been permitted in a few races now. It still not possible to round the wrong way (have been some spectacular examples recently!), so it's a bit confused at present.

I hope everyone understands that the gears at SOL started turning the moment it became obvious that the glitch still exists. The inner works are being cracked open as we type.

As far as any protests etc go, I'm happy to sit as volunteer committee and hear arguments, but from my reading of the rules the rounding is unassailable.

PDF Manual_rev5_1

"Rule" 4.2 The Course, Rounding Buoys and the Finish



The relevant diagram shows three roundings, only one of which is labeled "illegal". The rounding in question clearly followed the green path and then backtracked, on which the text has nothing to say.

The text then goes on to say: You can be sure you have correctly passed a waypoint as it will show “rounded” on the race screen.

The rounding was explicitly correct as the conditions specified were met.

HTML Manual

"Rule" 1.5 Marks must be rounded in the direction indicated by the arrows in the client. This rule is enforced automatically by the server.

This condition was met. The mark was "rounded" in the correct direction, but subsequently unrounded. The rule was enforced automatically.

Protests, DSQ, redress etc must follow the rules as written and implemented, in SOL as in IRL.

None of this is saying that the rounding would have been allowed IRL, or that this isn't #1 priority to correct. The change to the rounding rules that originally eliminated this problem was almost universally applauded. It made things much more clear, reflected IRL practice and made the job of setting courses much easier. As soon as SOL can track down the correct chunk of code and it's safe/appropriate to do so (not mid-race) the fix will be applied.

The rules as correctly implemented worked as IRL, and as follows:



Our finish line still does not conform to IRL, in that it can be crossed from either side.

--------------

A side project that should come out of this: the manual is not a rule book. SOL should have accurate and unambiguous rules defined in a separate document. We don't have very many rules, but writing this type of thing is surprisingly hard to do correctly. I invite any interested parties to contribute to this effort.

76T
Attachments
Posted by
Sebensa


Users avatar

Posts
70
Registered at
2010-10-06 14:50:36
2011-07-16 16:54:34 - Re: Mark rounding
if acceptable,as a past National exec. of a class in RSA, as well as an active competive sailor for a number of years, I am happy (in semi retirement) to offer my bit. Lattitude/time diff. may make this difficult - even with Skype etc.
However, the growth & sustainability of SOL deserves a bit of effort from me & all who enjoy this facility, imho
call me anytime

Kind regards
Ray
Posted by
PetrM


Users avatar

Posts
7
Registered at
2008-12-31 13:00:19
2011-07-16 19:24:44 - Re: Mark rounding
As I said earlier in the chat:

"I am apologize for die hard sailors, but my move was within rules of SOL."

"From manual and game behavior:
I have a understanding, that rounding rule is when accessing mark. So when mark is marked as rounded, you can deal with next mark."

Hope my move, which was forced by defending position within SOL rules, will help to advance SOL rule closer IRL rules. So people who never sailed race, as me, can be educated about IRL sailing racing rules.

Thanks to All who tried to understand SOL rules and published their opinion that my move was legal.

Thanks to bushing All others.

Have a great time IRL.
PetrM
Posted by
KiaKaha


Users avatar

Posts
19
Registered at
2010-12-14 20:47:23
2011-07-16 20:13:51 - Re: Mark rounding
76T,
I dont know how you can say that the Petrm followed the green line in the diagram.If the green line was followed he would have come to the mark on stb and left it on stb therefore following the arrow. The pink line which says is illegal is the one he followed which comes to the mark and turns and goes back the way he came. If you cant see this you must be looking at a different picture.You also say that the manual is not a rule book, which maybe its not, but it does say the word " illegal" in there so it must not be able to be done!! Also as Kalle said, at a mark rounding you must follow the direction of the arrow, again this was not done.
Posted by
sol


Users avatar

Posts
297
Registered at
2008-08-14 11:08:14
2011-07-16 21:11:24 - Re: Mark rounding
please accept this as POSITIVE contribution , specially for good Petr who has to understand why we are at this stage .

76T please , allow me to explain without reference to all those different examples , that are perfect , but may be too much for the non experienced in IRL sailing .

Petr ....this is the full story :

up to about one year ago what you did was quite commonly done by many in SOL , although non corresponding to IRL regulations , but just permitted by the server , as once that line from the mark was passed , from there one could do what he liked , and the server would continue to consider that boat as "rounded ".

One night , when a boat called Incognito did it again , there was a riot , and the solgods intervened , enforcing that a mark MUST be passed ( or "left" as the correct terminology is ) keeping the boat at the same side of the mark all the way through the rounding .....In simpler terms the mark must be contained INSIDE the whole track of the boats race .

Solport found a coding way of enforcing this , and the manual was amended . From that moment if a boat was doing what you have done , the passing back of that line from the mark was triggering the mark to become "not rounded " , so to enforce the practice.

Very recently something happened with the sol programme itself , whereby the coding part we are talking about have been lost ...I am sure that it will be found and reinstated as soon as possible .

In the meantime anything that is allowed by the server is NOT illegal ......but trust me .....passing the mark and coming back is NOT passing a mark ...it is bouncing against a wall ...and that is NOT sail racing ( only videogame ).

hope clear for those who were not with us one year ago , and hope the correct system will be reinstated asap.
;)
ciao
Posted by
WIN


Users avatar

Posts
349
Registered at
2009-07-09 23:32:07
2011-07-16 21:13:29 - Re: Mark rounding
my fondest apologies ....

did not realize that I was logged in as sol

the previous post is mine ...WIN....;)

PS : posting as sol ....was it not precluded ????????

ciao
Posted by
Schakel


Users avatar

Posts
183
Registered at
2008-12-19 09:19:00
2011-07-16 21:38:29 - Re: Mark rounding
sol said @ 2011-07-16 21:11:24:
please accept this as POSITIVE contribution , specially for good Petr who has to understand why we are at this stage .

Petr ....this is the full story :
WIN,

You can be sure that Petr is very much aware of everything you wrote about. He has been active here since January 2009 and has participated in well over 130 races. And you can also be sure he knew exactly what he was doing.

Cheers,
Philip



Posted by
WIN


Users avatar

Posts
349
Registered at
2009-07-09 23:32:07
2011-07-16 22:04:41 - Re: Mark rounding
Philip

you are perfectly right ....Petr is with us since end of 2008 actually ...the information is on this very page .......

Perhaps my contribution was for those who were'nt and may not understand this subject.

I still believe that sol should go back to previous situation whereby correct rounding was reinforced by server , to go back to sail racing simulation.

Ciao

Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next

Please login to post a reply.

Races

Next Race: 00d 00h 00m

Current Races:

Azores Challenge 2025


Another almost forgotten race at SOL. For only the second time we will sail the Jester Azores Challenge route from 2016.
What is the Jester Challenge?
Every two years a group of singlehanded sailors heads for Plymouth to sail the Atlantic. The Jester Challenge is not a race in any way, shape or form, simply an opportunity for skippers to test their boats and their seagoing mettle in a supportive and non-competitive environment. Skippers can make stopovers in other ports or harbours if they so desire, and there is no stigma attached to retiring from the event. Each sailor takes full responsibility for him or herself, their boat and the equipment they carry. There are no entry fees and virtually no rules, although there are guidelines.
Our rules are a bit different and we have a 60ft trimaran at our disposal and we have 1200nm to cover. Let's see what our yachts and their skippers can do. We wonder what you will take on board?
Race #1898
INFO from brainaid.de
60ft_Trimaran PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking:
ARQ1 - ARCH - SUPSOL – SYC
Race starts: Mar 17th 17:00 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Melbourne Osaka Cup Double-Handed Yacht Race 2025

Welcome once again to what these days is Sailonline’s almost annual virtual Melbourne to Osaka Yacht Race. In real life, this double-handed 5500 nm race between these two sister cities, one deep in the southern hemisphere, the other high in the northern hemisphere, is run every four to five years, and this year is such a year. So, this year’s online version is in sync with the Melbourne Osaka Cup 2025 organised by the Ocean Racing Club of Victoria (ORCV), and the Sandringham (SYC) and Osaka Hokko (OHYC) yacht clubs. We’ll be racing the well-known First 40, a popular size of boat which should be a good match for many of the boats entered in the real race. With the doldrums unavoidably lying across our course, you can expect to be at virtual sea for at least a month!
Race #1669
INFO by brainaid.de
First 40 Particulars
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC
Race starts: Mar 16th 06:00 Registration Open!

▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Channel Islands 500 Yacht Race 2025


Prepare for an exhilarating offshore challenge in the Channel Islands 500 Yacht Race! Collaborating with the Newport Harbor Yacht Club, Sailonline brings you a 500-nautical-mile test of skill, speed, and strategy. Starting in Santa Barbara, you’ll navigate between Santa Cruz Island and Santa Rosa Island, rounding three marks before finishing in San Diego. Our SOLers will be competing in their Melges 40s, a high-performance offshore racer designed by the Botin partnership. Who will conquer the Pacific and claim victory? Set your course and race for glory!
Race #1899
INFO by brainaid.de
Melges 40 PARTICULARS
NAM_AWIP WX Updates:
0245 / 0845 / 1445 / 2045
Ranking: SYC
Race starts: Mar 14th 22:30 Registration Open!
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Tristan da Cunha to Coronation Island 2025

The adventure continues as we embark on the second leg of the RWW series, racing from Tristan da Cunha to the remote and uninhabited Coronation Island, NO, Elephant Island. Nestled between the Scotia Sea and the Weddell Sea, both island were named by 19th C British whalers. Prepare for a thrilling journey through the Roaring Forties and Furious Fifties, where relentless winds and challenging seas will test the mettle of every crew. This leg will be sailed aboard the historically iconic Steinlager II and is part of the prestigious OCCH 2025 series. The RWW series ranking will be determined by each team's best 7 out of 8 race results, so every moment counts! Are you ready to face the ultimate test of skill and endurance?
PRIZE: SMPF
Race #1890
INFO by brainaid.de
Steinlager II PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: OCQ1 - RWW - OCCH - SUPSOL - SYC
RACE CLOSE: Friday,
March 21 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Mar 03rd 11:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Sinbad by Balloon 2025 - Dondra to Toamasina


Above you see a stratospheric balloon, that if only we had gribs at that altitude would get blasted along quite rapidly and predictably. Alas we just have our SOL balloon that sails rather lower to the sea and that we have crossed the Atlantic in, west to east, last year for the first time in the southern hemisphere. So much fun was had by all, that this year we will attempt the Indian Ocean, but in four legs. Another great piece of fiction, the voyages of Sinbad By Balloon not magic carpet, although you may need a bit of magic to make any progress at times. Pack your wicker basket full for your first leg of at least 2300nm from Sri Lanka to Madagascar; it’s not a picnic hamper, you could be in the air for longer than you hoped!
Race #1883
INFOby brainaid.de
SOL Balloon PARTICULARS
WX Updates:
0430 / 1030 / 1630 / 2230
Ranking: SYC - SBB
RACE CLOSE: Tuesday,
March 18 at 2300 UTC.
Race starts: Feb 05th 11:00 Registration Closed
▶ Flash
GO TO RACE

Go to race archive

SYC Ranking

  1. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Patrick70119
  2. Sailonline Yacht Club Member WRmirekd
  3. Sailonline Yacht Club Member CriticalHippo
  4. Sailonline Yacht Club Member KaSToR
  5. Sailonline Yacht Club Member vida
  6. Sailonline Yacht Club Member rafa
  7. Sailonline Yacht Club Member FreyjaUSA
  8. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Kipper1258
  9. Sailonline Yacht Club Member bonknhoot
  10. Sailonline Yacht Club Member Sax747

View full list

Series

Mobile Client

SYC members have the benefit of access to our mobile/lightweight web client!

The mobile client